like by far the worst ever imo.

Anyone else want to get rid of alliance wide retals? ...

haha, yes it is horrible this round. We had a member wide debate within LaF about a reset ago on whether to push a country:country retal policy, but it didn't recieve overwhelming enough support *shrug*

The issue with that in the debate was the all explore countries would be obsolete. Either that or youd have to drastically lower military expenses so they could have defense

You mean a fatty may have to pay for defense?
Well I Never heard of such nonsense!

... where did i say fatty idiot? I said all explore. Someone who dosn't want to have to retal or landgrab but play the game fairly low keylike. AKA they want NO jets.

No sense in name calling...I'm going over to FFAT and quit with HR....

Don't come here acting like a prick then. Or you get the prick attitude right back.

Sounds like i hit a nerve there..you can always hit the ignore button to walk out of the truth.

No nerve no. I just give the same tone back to people. Good input to the thread though snaw

Country=country retal is the fluff.
Id play for sure. and you could always dump some stock retal and sell jets away. this is why we have weapons tech mill strat tech and off allies =)

Well, i was just pointing out that i thought you were advocating the lowering of military expense to accommodate netters is all..
I am actually for country:country retals

It would allow people to continue doing all explore countries I'd think. I dont know all the ramifications of it but I am sure it would be fine for netting and war. But since alliance wide retals is a netter issue primarily the adjustment might help them more... mind you it might balance out completely and have the grabbers having that much more too... someone like enshula would know better the effects

And I am kind of neutral. I just think for all explorers it might discourage them from playing if landgrabbing was pretty rampant since they want very little time put into this game while playing

Are all-X countries obsolete in primary, express, or tourney? Plenty of people play there without jets successfully. Snawdog had a good point, settle down.

that tends to be because people leave those alone who dont landgrab. At least it appears that way in express. I get grabbed there the last 2 sets at most 2 times while people doing grabbing enjoy it more. Plus the whole suiciding thing keeps people in check there whereas thats less likely in alliance

If you have a lot of defense you'll be left alone for the most part. Even with country:country retals alliances could and would still enforce rules about overgrabbing and suiciding. I believe laf's original proposal was to revert back to alliance:alliance retals if more than one grab was done.

You'd essentially be safer on the alliance server, as you always are.

well I hadn't heard that addition which is a good one. Meh, as I said i am more neutral and trying to point out a flaw :P

if you want country:country retals, go play FFA or Primary.

wtf is the point of being in an ALLIANCE server if your alliance can't even help you out?

What's the point of being a troll when you're so bad at it?

i was never good at trolling, so i guess there's no point.

but i wasn't trolling in this case anyways, so...

What's the deal with homework? It's not like you're working on your home...

I am personally for L:L retals for yourself and 1:1 for alliance-wide. Once I have sufficient power I will lead a violent crusade for that!

Sorry, I thought you were trolling. Maybe you just had the misfortune of playing in really unfriendly alliances. My bad!

Things that alliances can do you for that don't include retalling for you:

1) Offer a community. Wasn't this all the rage a few years back? "I only play a few minutes a day but I like the people in my alliance."

2) Offer country advice and strategy tips. Lots of players could use this!

3) Offer ingame alliances. If you're really shy you can even see ingame who doesn't have full d allies yet in your tag. No awkward communication required!

4) Alliance tools. Many alliances maintain their own websites.

5) Protection from suiciders.

6) Sending you FA and offensive allies to help you do retals.



I guess it's really not an alliance server unless people can play the game without playing or thinking, right?

It sure would pump up the value of the mighty tank.

TANKS FTW!

I'm waiting for the coalition for country:country retals. I'd join.

for reals i'd love to see a pic of locket

where does that come into anything?

I think country:country may be a bit harsh, but definitely something needs to be done...perhaps your alliances is a coalition of teams(all in one alliance, though teams are shown as well), and your team can retal for you. Teams of 5-10 countries(whatever amount). I know it sounds like team server, but it wouldn't be used in anything but politics where you are still one alliance for all other things.

For the record, Im just tossing out off the top of my head...if I thought it through that idea may have obvious flaws, such as once facebook opens up...this would be out the window.

7) Organized wars!


great list :p

It takes time to set up a landgrab or retal properly and for many people that time is simply better spent elsewhere. In The Omega, we have several people on a list that automatically release any retals they are owed to the wider alliance.

My advice to LGers, pick your targets well and only hit an alliance once per 24hrs. In other words choose better targets and limit your liability.

For the record: This is strictly my personal opinion and in no way reflects any official or unofficial Omega position. My post is NOT a declaration of The Omega's position on this issue. If the Omega declares an official position, it will be posted appropriately.

I thought the OP would say that the land was screaming too much.

i think country: country for one or two hits but then alliance wide for more than that would be a great compromise. Also I love slagpit's list of other things an alliance offers...

ya, I think when we were discussing it within LaF, the idea was that we'd do country:country on the first hit on the country, but if 2 or more are made, it's opened up to the whole alliance or something

with a player base this small on this server, it begins to make more sense to move to that type of model. There would be a lot of wars over it, though :p

I'd go to war to keep this server alive.

Go for it, don't be surprised if your 1a population suddenly cuts in half.

You'll lose even more players. I suspect that most of you overestimate the "dedication" of the already small player base. A large part of it are actually old and bored veterans who just logon, hit explore/build and logout 2 minutes later. They would simply not be bothered to retal and if the only alternative is to let the attacker get away with free land they'll just quit.

Also if you are seriously thinking of enforcing such a policy it surely removes yet another important aspect of this game which actually still makes it attractive, and I quote: "as we keep saying, running a tag that can deter retals is an important part of this server". Besides, if you want only country/country retals there're always primary, tournament and express servers. Slagpit's list accurately describes how an alliance helps their players perform well in the above mentioned servers. Leave alliance alone.

cause country:country doesnt promote bottom feeding or anything. if thats the case im sending missle retals.

*ROTFLMAO*

country:country-retals:

dict with 140-145% weap with 5m turrets and 2m troops and 500k tanks as defense and has 2 def-allies each with 7-10m turrets and 3-5m troops and 1m tanks grabs rep casher all-x would mean that rep would need to sell alot his/her stocks to get enough money to buy jets to break attacker especially if attacker has jumped after hit and knowing how crazy alliance-market is its very possible that jets prices are much lower than price which that rep bought those he/she would lose alot money.

I have suspected that this is the case for a while. I can't say that I'm pleased at all that others agree. It's a fairly serious problem for this server.

For the most part, if you want to put effort into your country and try hard to win you need to landgrab. Attacking other countries requires additional effort on your part. Getting attacked by other countries does not require additional effort on your part. It is a passive gesture. If you only care enough to play two minutes a day, why would you care about being grabbed? People only care enough not to be grabbed? What you're describing is not a lack of dedication. I'd describe it as a combination of laziness and entitlement.

And that's a problem. Why is that a problem? Nearly everyone agrees that we need more players in the alliance server. What role should these new players take? If you're someone like Rufus described, your first preference would be for them to be untagged farmland. That way the grabbers can grab and you can play without fear of being grabbed. Your second preference would be for them to be like you: tagged up, but playing the game while not really playing. Not willing to accept any attacks on their countries. The third and final preference would be them actually playing the game. You know, making landgrabs and being landgrabbed. This is bad for you because your country would probably be landgrabbed a few times.

Now look at it from the perspective of new players. Do you think that new players would order their preferences in the same way as lazy players? Absolutely not. In fact, they would order them in the opposite order. They would want to play the game and make attacks. If that's impossible, some of them might settle for never grabbing and generally not caring. I don't think that any of them would want to play as an untagged because they'd be missing out on all of the aspects I listed and would have no hope of advancing their countries.

I don't have a problem with all-X players. I often run all-X myself. But refusing to be grabbed at all makes it impossible for other players to play the game. If you're trying really hard and you get grabbed by someone who is just doing it to cause trouble, like a suicider, sure, you might be frustrated then. But otherwise, they're just landgrabs. As someone who grabbed me in express said, "It's a landgrab. I don't mean anything by it. I'll leave you alone for the rest of the set." I did leave him alone and I finished higher than he did as an all-X. So what's the problem?

To clarify my last point, it would have also been fine if he finished with more NW than me. He put in more effort. If he beats me, good for him. The point is that it's possible to do well even if you get grabbed a few times.

May want to make it country:country on the first hit, then alliance-wide on any second or more hits on the ALLIANCE...not just on the country. Otherwise, you'll have some shmuck like me making single grabs on all countries in LaF or something...

slag's post sums up what I believe as well...

new players that come to the server and keep playing aren't going to be untagged fodder, they're going to be people who want to play the game the way it's meant to be played. Not just sit back and hit the explore button all set.

What is the point of all our landgrabbing formula changes when people are still simply unwilling to hit eachother?

also, nuke... yes... I'm sure we discussed that as well :p

lol nuk I am sure that wouldnt go over well no matter which alliance you did it with :P

No. New players have no idea what they're doing when they first make a country. I remember my first one hehe. They have no idea of what the game was meant to be played and get pissed off before someone tells them what the game is meant to be played. (Sit back and hit the explore button is advanced technique, by the way.)

Let me reiterate. This is "alliance" server. If you're a new player you'll be untagged. And farmed 15 times a day while you're untagged. Then you will join an alliance because you start reading the forums and you learn that an alliance offers you the so called "tag protection". Tag protection means that the alliance is protecting you. Tag protection does not mean that you won't be hit 15 times per day by the same country but being hit "once" by 15 different countries is ok. New players will feel cheated by false advertising.

And let's be serious. If you start a country 4-5 days after the reset started, or even worse playing untagged for that amount of time even if you started in day 1 and you will NEVER have a country able to retal your own hits. In 48 hours. Especially if you're hit multiple times per day. As I said, leave the country/country retals for non alliance servers and leave alliance be as it is.

By the way. I don't really understand that fascination for land. This game is not about getting 100k acres of land. It is about doing better than everybody else given the available sets of circumstances. Like build a good country and get rank 1 in NW. So what that the land is hard to get? What's the difference between getting rank 1 with a 150mNW country on 15k acres and getting the same rank 1 with 350mNW country on 35k acres of land? Guess what, the land is scarce for everyone. You don't get a badge for that.

I have thought the same thing..
I mean if some of these hard grabbing alliances could get #1 with less land,would they be satisfied?
I think the answer is no,and i further think they get some sort of pleasure out of fisting the little guy.

There is a difference between new players to the game and new players to the server. We encourage new players to start with one of the individual servers. We also have a system that allows alliances to automatically recruit from alliance untaggeds and players who play on other servers but don't play alliance. Sadly, most alliances choose not to use this feature.

So suppose you're a new player in primary. You like the game so far. Even with no clans, most countries don't get farmed 15 times a day. You receive a message about how there are alliance clans who want players just like you! You read the messages:

"The Neofederation is recruiting all members willing to learn & have fun. Visit our website to learn more about us."


"want to netgain in the most fun and relaxing environment?

join The Fist of Odin today!"


"Interested in netgaining? Join Evolution! We are the result of a merger of the Real Estate Developers (RED) and un4given in 2004, and have strived to be top in Average Networth since! Join and learn to netgain, or learn to be better at netting!"


Well that's interesting. None of the recruitment messages say "JOIN US SO YOU NEVER GET GRABBED AGAIN LAR~". Instead, they talk about providing a fun environment and skills.

I don't understand the obsession with land either. Why do players who don't care about their countries at all get so upset if they lose some of their land?

Why are we dancing around with circular logic? Do we really love the status quo so much?

Next time I log in I think PDM might have a recruitment message! Thanks Slagpit!

ooh, I can answer that. It's not the fact that I lost some 500 acres that pisses me off. Is that xEVILALLIANCEx got those. If my oGOODALLIANCEo can't get them back, because I'm too lazy or retarded to retal, I'll just delete my country and never play again. It's like I'm giving my friends' enemies a double advantage: one, I make a lousy country that lowers their average NW and two give their direct opponents a head start. And I don't want to hurt my friends' efforts. As I said, alliance server is mostly about alliance, not individuals.

Just because someone doesn't aspire to be a billionaire doesn't mean they won't be pissed if you steal $20 from them...

I think everyone in this thread has bought into the myth of the all explore players. First, in warring alliances they play to war, how they get land is of quite secondary importance. In netting alliances many would grab if that required logging in once or twice a day and grabbing, not camping targets 7 or 8 times a day in hopes of being the first one to get a 50 A+ grab. The number of players who would actually play all-x even if grabbing environment greatly improved is much lower than almost everyone in this thread is assuming. And anyways playing all-x is easy enough even on servers with much healthier grabbing environments. One would think if it is easy enough to go all-x in primary it would be just as easy (if not easier b/c of alliance wide retals after first or second hit) to all-x in alliance even without an alliance wide retal system for all hits...