Jan 27th 2023, 9:52:04
Originally posted by DerrickICN:
Gonna be honest dude. I think most people like to war with a little stock because it's a bit more of a skills challenge regarding country building and stocks. Wars that start OOP and go all set with much collateral damage are generally thought as not much fun for anyone playing. Historically, if you want people to be friendly, even with war clans, you try to set the war up to be a little fun, and generally don't war in the most boring way possible. The war end of it is going to be very boring and tedious for Darkness with very obvious outcomes that dont involve a lot of strategy in building. That's why, imo, you've seen SF offer a 1v3 and Symbolic say "why don't we get started later next set." Both are options to improve their individual gameplay and present an actual challenge.
The only wars out of protection I've ever fought in were over pretty heavy grudges. Generally OOP is reserved to make war an awful time and a grind so people quit. It's reserved for the least friendly situations because of how bad the grind is. Even great rivalries tend to build up a little because it's just more fun. I say this all to say, if you want a pat on the back from anyone in this community, you ought to try to listen to some of the theory behind traditions here.
If you look at Darkness and say let's build for 2 weeks next set, I'm certain they'd be more than happy to give you an even sides war and that every achievement you made, they'd give you props for. OOP wars generally being thought of as toxic to the point that it makes people quit the game on both sides out of boredom is a very tough sell. Toxic behavior can result in achievement, but it's going to be thought the same way until you adjust your strategy to allow your counterparts to enjoy it. Like boxing, the best wars in this game are a dance. Leaders can hate each other, but the best wars have great dance partners. You can keep up your FU's to Darkness, but it'd benefit everyone in both clans if behind the scenes you worked to make the war fun for all parties. That's what separates good leaders from great ones. And what separates unremarkable full set drubbings from a decent fun time for everyone.
For parity sake, I'd generally be open to helping you guys on the toolsy end of things. But I can't help but see you as a horrible dance partner who likely won't adapt, and will lose members next set or the one after as rapidly as you gained them this one.
TL;DR version:
Your strategy is boring af and overplayed to 20 year vets in this game. You ain't the first black hole, and you won't be the last. You might think you're causing a raucous event, when in reality someone like you turns up once every six months, gets smashed, and exits stage right. I've never seen one turn out a good leader for a good amount of time that couldn't adapt.
The only wars out of protection I've ever fought in were over pretty heavy grudges. Generally OOP is reserved to make war an awful time and a grind so people quit. It's reserved for the least friendly situations because of how bad the grind is. Even great rivalries tend to build up a little because it's just more fun. I say this all to say, if you want a pat on the back from anyone in this community, you ought to try to listen to some of the theory behind traditions here.
If you look at Darkness and say let's build for 2 weeks next set, I'm certain they'd be more than happy to give you an even sides war and that every achievement you made, they'd give you props for. OOP wars generally being thought of as toxic to the point that it makes people quit the game on both sides out of boredom is a very tough sell. Toxic behavior can result in achievement, but it's going to be thought the same way until you adjust your strategy to allow your counterparts to enjoy it. Like boxing, the best wars in this game are a dance. Leaders can hate each other, but the best wars have great dance partners. You can keep up your FU's to Darkness, but it'd benefit everyone in both clans if behind the scenes you worked to make the war fun for all parties. That's what separates good leaders from great ones. And what separates unremarkable full set drubbings from a decent fun time for everyone.
For parity sake, I'd generally be open to helping you guys on the toolsy end of things. But I can't help but see you as a horrible dance partner who likely won't adapt, and will lose members next set or the one after as rapidly as you gained them this one.
TL;DR version:
Your strategy is boring af and overplayed to 20 year vets in this game. You ain't the first black hole, and you won't be the last. You might think you're causing a raucous event, when in reality someone like you turns up once every six months, gets smashed, and exits stage right. I've never seen one turn out a good leader for a good amount of time that couldn't adapt.
Derrick, you seem like a very reasonable person, so I'm going to attempt to give you a reasonable response.
At the onset, I'd like to state I take umbrage with most of what you've said. I don't fault you for it, but it's still problematic.
1. The issue of wars starting OOP (I'm not familiar with the acronymn, but I take it to mean at the beginning of the set). This is something I wasn't aware of at the start of this set, but can understand the reason for. I have been asked to wait till longer in the set, and I have NOT said no to that request. I'm fully considering it at this time. So to your point about me being a bad dance partner, I think that statement is without evidence (unless you're referring to my rhetoric).
2. Let's pretend I did say no to a set date war, however. This war began not because two sides agreed to have fun. It began specifically because Darkness was bullying untagged players. Go re-read the posts, it's clear from post histories. In fact, go read TheStupid's posts about not enforcing rules on teams. That was the catalyst to all of this. So for you to criticize me for being a bad dance partner and potentially forcing people off the server is... well it's kind of hypocritical. I understand Darkness are your boys, but they are the ones who push people off the server by bullying smaller teams. that's the entire reason why this war started.
3. I stated in my opening propaganda that I was here to give Darkness a hard time for what they did to others. I've been very clear with that intent. And as you're seeing, I'm doing exactly that. It's only in the last few days, as my team has started to have success, that I am getting the 'Oh, well let's fight different' and 'Oh, you're causing people to want to quit' and 'Oh, let's not fight against next round, this is getting boring'. It's almost as if it was tons of fun for Darkness when they could wreck the little guy, but as soon as their games get impacted, it's no longer fun.
4. You stated that you can't help but see me as a horrible dance partner that won't adapt. This is the sentence that most upsets me about your post, as it's the most meritless. Let's look at the facts. I have posted, multiple times on this forum, asking questions as to how to do things better. I attempted to join mercs so that I could learn from the best in the game. I've sought out help from vets and asked lots of questions to learn how to change my tactics (don't believe me, ask around). I've attempted to mirror what Darkness does in terms of tactics and strategies (look at our attacks and how they've evolved). And I've also attempted to be creative and come up with some new strategies, unsuccessfully thus far.
In my mind, by basically every measure, I've been extremely adaptable and have sought to learn to play the game the 'right way'. Our last two attacks as a team have been direct copies of what Darkness has done to us. Contrast that with the beginning of the round and our attack strategies then. To say that I'm not adaptable is flat wrong, my friend.
5. Your TL:DR is the message I've received from everyone from the start. It's dismissive and condescending. You're basically telling me "hey man, you have to play exactly the way you want, or you're going to make it boring for everyone, but also you're a dime a dozen, and we are going to smash you, and you'll be gone soon". Nice.
Now I have some questions for you.
Why do you think I am under any obligation to make the game fun for Darkness? They haven't attempted to make the game fun for us. They've acted with bravado and condescension on this forum for the last month and a half. With regards to rules on this server and the enforcement of not using multiple teams, one Darkness member basically said "If you want their to be rules, try to enforce them".
That's the sort of attitude we've received from Darkness. But now, all of a sudden, I'm being told that I have to play a certain way, or else I'm a bad leader.
The difference between a good and a bad leader is the ability to inspire confidence in their men (and women), and to achieve outcomes. It has nothing to do with adhering to expectations of outsiders, unless the leader wants to adhere to those expectations.
You can call me a bad leader, and a toxic dance partner, all you want. I'm surprised, coming from you, as like I said, I think you're a reasonable person. Maybe you haven't read all the posts and aren't current with all the happenings over the last month, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
As for your certainty that Darkness would give us props if we played them the 'correct' way, I'm far less certain than you are. But ultimately, I don't really care. If Darkness had wanted to start a war the proper way this set, they could have asked before the set began. I told them, probably 50 times, we were going to war them this set. Not a single person said 'ok cool, let's lay some ground rules'. Instead they said "hahahaha, you'll quit in 2 rounds, we are gonna smash you, you guys suck, we are the best ever".
But somehow I am the toxic, poor leader.
All of that said - I'm open to creating some ground rules for the next war. But if ya'll want me to be a fun dance partner, you gotta stop treating me and my team like trash, and start giving us the respect we deserve as fellow players of this game.
As for the tools Derrick, I appreciate the offer. I'm not going to grovel though. I've already made peace with the fact that we are at a disadvantage in that department.