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Mar 26th 2015, 12:19:06

Originally posted by ssewellusmc:
Originally posted by Twain:
Originally posted by ssewellusmc:

Your first and second statement are related. Firstly taxes went up under the current administration. The taxes were squandered and do not go to pay back the deficit.

let's go back to the original statement we were argueing - the deficit has been cut in half under the current adminstration. In 2008, the deficit was 485B under the prior administration. For 2014, the deficit was 486B... so clearly the only thing the current administration did was cut the own deficits they created. The increased taxes could have been used to pay down the deficit to a point lower than when the current adminstration took office, but that didn't happen. wouldn't it be nice if we could all go to work and make a problem 3x worse, then take 6 years to clean it up to the same point as where you started and say... Iook what a great job I did! Doesn't seem logical to me when you frame the argument around facts either.

As far as the numbers not being reliable - no one knows. I do know when we sampled expenses they were grossly understated and assets were grossly overstated. You would think over a 20 year period it would be somewhat consistent, but no one really knows because they have very little in the ways of internal control or ability to measure or report their financials. Congress recognized the problem in the early 90's and mandated that the government get audit ready, but they still aren't capable. They didn't even start trying until circa 2010.


You're being quite misleading with a lot of what you're arguing.

The 2009 budget would be a Bush budget, since we're talking fiscal years, which begin in October of the previous year when Bush was still in office. 2010 would be the first true Obama budget.

Secondly, the economic crash occurred in Sept. of 2008, so the 2009 Fiscal Year was going to have a much larger deficit no matter who was President and no matter what type of spending was done because the crash was going to cause a huge drop in tax revenues. And of course, the crash itself was no fault of Pres. Obama's, whether you want to try to trace it back to Pres. Bush or to policies of the 80s and 90s. So even saying that he cleaned up a mess in 6 years IS still a positive on his record, because it wasn't HIS mess that he cleaned up.

On your last point, it's certainly a reasonable thing to believe that perhaps the numbers aren't as accurate as many might think, but even you acknowledge that it's a reasonable assumption (although admittedly still an assumption) that the numbers would probably be consistently off, so if we use the first term numbers of FY 2009 and FY 2013 as I used before, we go from 1.4T to 680B, which is a 51-52% reduction in the deficit.

The thing is: If you want to argue that someone else might've handled the recession in a better way, fine. That's up for debate. If you want to argue that the ACA has hidden costs, fine. But if you want to debate whether Pres. Obama cut the deficit by 50% in his first term, you're simply debating against the facts. And if you want to debate that the economy hasn't markedly improved during Pres. Obama's tenure, you're debating against the facts there as well.


The 2009 budget was so large because of the bailout which Obama had input on and wanted. I do believe he helped Bush with it. The budget only runs until Sept 30 of each year as well. The deficit you are measuring is in "actual dollars" .http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...Stabilization_Act_of_2008

The current economy is a house of cards. I'm just waiting for the next bubble. You probably also believe the economy was booming because of Clinton as well. In case you havnt figured, the deficit keeps getting larger and larger because each president is simply one upping the next guy. Bush had 800b.

I don't believe any single politician helped fix the economy. All politicians do is create bubbles that one day burst and create an even larger problem than if they would have let the market correct itself. put down the kool-aid.


good job, you finally figured out that no politicians are able to help you and your system is corrupt.

we've been moving in the same direction, unfortunately. Thanks, Harper.

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