Your scope is so limited lol. I dunno. LaF got FSed 2 times in the last 5 years and started the hitting once. After those sets signed a CF that would have lasted the next year, had changes not gone into effect. That's hardly "getting forced to war every set." That's getting forced to war twice in a 5 year period.

From what I can tell, Gerdler made some people mad that generally aren't all mad at LaF at the same time. SOL and SoF, for example, have often aligned with LaF. The fact that they were all mad at LaF at once says more about LaF than it does the opposition.

Further, Elders membership at its peak was essentially a rag-tag group of people from a variety of small tags that LaF had repeatedly harassed and threatened over the years. When a group with essentially only that in common come together, and grow to a point of being as large and powerful, it also says more about LaF than it does its former victims that they were unable to run off. You made more enemies than you have players in your tag, and you want to blame the fact that, what, your enemies worked together?

Again, I think you're being intentionally naive and biased rather than having open discourse, so it's hardly worth talking sense with you. All I'll say is an old adage that it "takes two to tango." If you've made more enemies than allies recently, you were quite simply playing the politics poorly. It's not more complicated than that.

If I'm wrong, why then is hitting LaF such a powerful recruitment tool? It can't just be that you were always super sweet folks that 100s of people dislike for no reason... You'd of course never admit to anything tho, because you have no desire to find a middle ground. And that's what frustrates the hell out of people like PDM, KoH and myself who constantly live there.

Making over half of a community mad AND simultaneously doing literally nothing to try to reconcile that anger is a wild CHOICE for anyone desiring peace in any aspect of life.

I guess it depends on your idea of what's right?

I actually think there's no way in fluff everyone in LaF agrees with the changes as strictly and with such stoicism as it appears on the forums. It ruined the server and sent half the players of the game packing. It would take a genuine fool to see nothing wrong with that on a fundamental level, unless they were so influenced by biases that they saw no alternatives (i.e., American politics parallel).

For the record, people like Requiem WERE a prime example of people who were for nerfing things like CD and AB and such to increase parity, before people like you who can't see beyond the taint they're latched onto like a leach came along and pushed all but very few of us who play both sides out. I'm not uncommon. I'm just uncommon now.

People like you hardlining issues to s the d of your people is all that's left, and the community is suffering for it. But don't fluffin get it twisted. The only changes that happened have been to support LaF. If LaF wasn't for it, it wouldn't have happened.

It's like Trump v Democrats in the US. People on either side will essentially stop having an opinion and just blindly support their horse rather than having the most civil view of being able to agree and disagree with both. The world is so vitriolic now, and while politics here tend to mirror that, it's highly disappointing sheep like you, and not those who can see both sides, are the loudest voices.

Let it be known, I'm for this change, but I'm not for that fluffhead who just tried to manipulate my words, and you can be both!!!

....also, just do Bomb Buildings op. It's the old AB x2 for CS destruction. If you're same strat as the other guy, and you mix ABs with BB to recover readiness, they're just as messed up as they were when you used to cash readiness turns.

Great analysis of the years you weren't here TC. You're completely wrong, but thanks anyways.

LaF absolutely pushed for the nerf re: suiciders, I just happened to agree with them because I don't just agree with people on my side regardless of the merits, unlike yourself.

It was LaF AND myself who pushed for this. Not any other current wardogs.

It now does damage equal to your CS divided by a constant. Meaning the more CS you build, the more CS you destroy.

This is not an opinion, this is just letting you know you have far too few CS if you're getting 0 returns lol

Is joeskinSOL/ridsectSoF still around? That dude played 2 whole people for the entire duration of EE and only got deleted like twice lol. I always knew it was one guy and when arranging wars, would count his 2 countries as 1. The 2 combined to make 1 decent player, and despite having all information between competing tags, seemed to only use it for personal walling schedule, so I kinda never reported it. Lol.

Both of his personalities are stand up dudes, so I feel like if y'all are actually the same person, it's all good. We like yas. I know you're not, but if you were, it'd probably be fine unless LaF got upset.

Not to be THAT GUY, but ABs suck. The fact that people haven't figured out Bomb Buildings op HAS ALWAYS done more CS damage than AB is wild to me. My suiciders over the years figured this out faster than the dudes who play in tags. The AB nerf was always coming, and I have reasons I agree with it, frankly. AB OOP FS is a trash way to fight. It's literally a working method for cowards who wouldn't dare war wallers with stocks. Tbh, I'm glad that fluff is narfed. Wouldda been fabulous if they did it years ago before clanGDI existed, so that turn 101 FS fluff that was the only way LaF could win would have been worthless.

Sucked having several years of them agreeing with me because of their suiciders to ruin their FS strat. And I take a bit of solace in the fact that it made it in to the changeset, despite the fact they don't need that stupid war strat anymore.

Then I guess you should blame the dons of yore for saying they would find me and kill me every set no matter what tag I was in. That was a mutual thing for several LaF leaders in a row. I was just fighting back for many many years. Idk why they decided to stop killing me every set, maybe because they don't have a kill team anymore? Could have just been that I joined RAGE for a bit and LaF high key wasn't messing with DL's RAGE. Either way, if that's toxic than me as a singular barely active player, and just about every leader in LaF from 2001 to 2015 are toxic.

I didn't make that decision for LaF tho. They made it for me. So I guess I'm toxic now. As are H4xor, Arietis, Xinhuan, Mischief, TOB, Eugene, Parallax, Solid Snake and of course, yourself. I can agree with that, I suppose. I never was fond of our relations and tend to err on creating peace for LaF despite joining the wars.

LaF has always been LaF first and I've always been community first, which is the main reason we're not aligned. Either way, I certainly haven't attacked LaF anywhere near as much as they've attacked me. But I do think if LaF supported the rest of the community more, and did what's right instead of what's best for LaF more, I'd probably be in the tag.

I did go from being told LaF would never house trash like me, to having more or less an open invite to join a few years ago. Perhaps it's toxic to maintain a rivalry, but in the past it has always been good for all to have me against LaF negotiating peace, so I haven't changed my position. *shrugs*

Either way, it doesn't hurt my feelings or anything being called toxic, I just think it's a bit naive. There are reasons ranging from LaF needing someone willing to negotiate and push for peace on the other side, to years of attempting to run me out of the game for my position politically.

Respect is earned TC, and the dozen wardogs that I get none from only feel that way because I will negotiate peace for LaF and invest absurd amounts of time making sure friendly wars go off proper. You guys deserve what you get from me tho. Again, it's good for the game to have someone willing to make the bacon. If you guys were better at it, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Still bummed I couldn't trick you guys into killing chevs. Wouldda been all time fun times.

Somebody's gotta be the eunuch Varys afterall.

2nd double post of the day (ugh with the forum inactivity these days)

Syko, if you see the question I wrote, please respond to it and don't let TC being a nuisance get in the way. I am actually curious about your thoughts because I feel like they'd be uniquely more akin to mine than most. We can have the discussion privately if you'd like. I'll hop on IRC for old times sake or whatever. Just a cat with curiousity is all....

Haha. I definitely remember when ICN was a bully. Hahaha. Got me good.

Sui will be along shortly to laugh extremely hard at the concept of anyone getting bullied by me.

5 days later after some more conversations of a new crop of folks playing their last ever set and me lamenting it, I suppose I'll double post.

The goal should be to eliminate suicides and blindsides, not war. This payout LaF gives essentially to be jerks to the rest of the community while simultaneously avoiding war is silly, and allows the worst of all personalities to flourish. Hate from the largest tags has no consequences now, so the game itself is degraded.

War is essential here, qz. You're killing this community by disallowing it.

Please remove the tithing warclans bit, and you've got a great changeset. It's perfectly fine that a clan can get hit with notice, any real ones that haven't been jerks to people should be able to defend themselves with notice.

I think you'd be LaFing at yourself then, Karny.

The part of the game you enjoy most has been eliminated. I'm aware of the fact that it was never very kind to you, but fact is, you don't have the option anymore.

Out of curiousity, do you consider it winning having grudge wars removed? I personally think you'd find this meta boring, but am genuinely curious about your actual thoughts.

I assumed you'd pander to your tag, but eventually get bored and quit when the wardogs leave. Tell me how I'm wrong.

Yes this is true. Last update I got on the site, bore said gains had been in contact with him many times and he was transferring the site to gains instead of shutting it down.

After that idk....but theoretically gains runs that site now and bore called him LaF scum sorta hilariously after telling everyone he spent like $7,000 hosting it all these years lol.

Idk who you ACTUALLY contact but supposedly bore was either dumping his money pit on gains or closing the site. It's still online so I'd assume gains runs it?

Kinda funny when people aren't arguing that maybe they don't talk at all lol.

I'll be honest qz, in terms of gameplay, I don't think this is doing what you intended it for, and is very clearly dramatically hurting membership. I think you're sort of trying to keep "toxic behavior" away from normal people, but those normal people may be the most toxic. There's got to be a better way to let politics play out without eliminating war.

I've made many suggestions on this, because I do actually see it as the way of the future of the game, but you've still got to let people hit each other. It's part of what made this community a community and not some single player game.