we already let everything go, its the fact that you guys started to aggravate us with #449 that was the root of all the problem.

if you guys are willing to drop everything for next reset i will do it also and we'd start all new again, and hopefully the next time there will be communication at every step.

but too bad i still don't want to come back, so you really have to deal with it with LT or SS or whoever takes the head FR role for LaF next reset. i can tell them to do it and hopefully they take my advice.

well as long as you keep on assuming the worst, then the worst will keep on happening.

remember we were warring SOL two resets ago and then you guys did later and we shared spy ops?

you forgot to turn that part off the next reset and i saw my own country got suicided by an untagged seconds after a PDM vet uploaded my spy op onto boxcar (shared via boxcar).

it was quite a sight, but i didn't assume the worst of PDM and just let it go. plus i don't care about my country anymore, i'm beyond that point of caring, so i dropped it. i was just here to keep other LaF members from not quitting this game by protecting them.

if i can let that go, you surely can let your conspiracy theories go?

you sure he's not like comwood or some other old vet who came back under an alias? i'm willing to do some ip matching or research or whatever.

i'm fine if #449 was truly a new member. then i can chalk it up to just unfortunate timing of his actions that ruined any attempt of peace between us.

i was busy that time. i have a job as a server software architect of which we had capacity issues so i was working 9am-4am shifts trying to find last minute hotfixes to optimize and stabilize the code. i just replied the shortest answer possible, which is why you just got a "lol ok" response.

i even addressed this publically on AT. so i'm sorry about not clarifying about the pact and whatever, i had more important rl issues to worry about at the moment.

you can ask sanct/icn. i had to come home late at night to fix our FA issues with them and ended up talking to their euro/australian FA because by the time i got home the north american FAs all went to sleep.

if you can't cut me some slack and not always assume the worst out of my actions (because you are hell bent to prove that this was all planned), then i don't know what to say to you other than i'm happy that i'm leaving so you can deal with other LaF heads.

and believe me that was the last thing i wanted to do, to do fluffing FA work for LaF at 4am in the morning after a long day of work when i should be sleeping instead.

our multi-set pact expired this reset. you didn't renew it with me.

i said it was fine, because that accident by drow was just one grab and you said it was a mistake. it wasn't a big deal. that's why i replied the way i did and we just retaled it once and got our land back.

it was #449 doing the second grab that caused suspicion.

that's why i asked for the 100th time who the fluff #449 is, and you still refuse to answer such a simple question. because all reset he was trying to undermine LaF/PDM relations that we clearly were trying to improve.

was it comwood coming back and being displeased that we were trying to fix fluff?

i'm being serious here, i really want to know

and i apologize to any newer PDM members who just thought LaF just always bullied PDM and farmed them.

i can see why you are mad, you aren't responsible for the actions of old dumbass members 8 years ago.

but until your leaders start fessing up and take a policy approach of trying to fix relations with LaF instead of aggravating them, we will never fix this.

and i was willing to fix it, but you guys make me so fed up that i wish you luck in that the next head FR of LaF will take the approach of wanting to fix it also.

imho comwood because of the original LaF/PDM tensions and the fact that PDM lost originally, he trained the next generation of PDM leaders to carry a fervent anti-LaF agenda which they pushed.

the whole crap about RD/LaF connections was just fabrications they made up to brainwash the newer members and leaders into having a united clause for "good" to continue on the fight with LaF.

i just can't believe people to this day in PDM are still effected by that garbage. the more i think back and i connect the dots, the more i prove to myself why the politics and game environment for the alliance server is toxic like hell and convinces me i made the right decision to leave

no that was the "thatguy" incident. the RD/PDM/LaF love triangle was 5-ish years ago to my knowledge when i was retired.

i remember why GoSu suicided us. it was verbal sparring comparing e-penises for top 10 spots between LaF members and him (he had a top 25 worthy country himself).

he was just a sore loser that couldn't beat those guys in a fair netgaining competition so he resorted to suiciding towards the end of the reset when he realized he couldn't back up his egotistical claim ingame that he was the better netter.

i had friendly banter with top netters in the past from other aliances like waser or from my own alliance like nof/cm/aqua. if they beat me, i try harder next reset. GoSu was the only one that thought to "suicide on their asses because you got beat".

and comwood was the only leader to defend such a imbecile.

i remember those days. PDM and LaF were allies and we had members going into each other's IRC channels to chat about netting. back then PDM had guys who are decent netters and we had some friendly competition. that was the part of the game i remember which was fun for me, that we sadly don't have anymore.

when GoSu got teased by LaF members in IRC verbally for "not being g0su enough" because they were going to beat him and should rename his handle to "ch0b0" he took it personal and used ingame actions.

those boneheaded moves plus comwood's dumb decision to tell LaF to shove it instead of paying their long time ally reps over that suicide (while still keeping GoSu as a core member of PDM) is what originally blew up the tensions.

maybe those LaF members should never have teased GoSu? who knows, but the fact remain that he used ingame actions and PDM refused to pay for it.

comwood was the one that told me to shove it when GoSu suicided on two of our top 10ers in 2003 when we had a multi-year renewed LDP and there was like 0 hits exchanged between LaF and PDM.

he probably set the wrong trend for PDM to follow for the future. seems like they are learning very well...

good.

you realized i started my argument this reset with PDM topfeeding LaF twice when LaF didn't do anything to you guys.

first time detmer called it an accident.

second time tells me it is not an accident.

you are right, it will not look good for LaF to start heavy LGing PDM next reset without provocation. i would've promised you i won't but since you guys are driving me away, it's up to the other LaF heads to decide this. you should ask them what they think.

this reset you provoked us first. just like how you provoked us in the GoSu incident for no reason, and most likely the "thatguy" incident. maybe you will learn next reset to stop aggravating LaF without any cause.

and if you do aggravate LaF first, and then you get farmed, just suck it up and stop fluffing all over AT.

and remember you always had the option of diffusing the situation by accepting my 3 offers of pacting (and one of them was multi-reset pacting).

your genius leaders decide it was better to not say yes.

that's all it took. a simple fluffing "yes". if you don't want to accept it, then it's your own goddamn fault for the actions sowed upon you. you chose your own destiny.

.

and i like it how you TGD conveniently forgot to include how nuke himself said LaF paid the reps for it.

if you guys paid the reps for GoSu, we'd might still be DPs to this day...

PDM was one of our longest pacted allies at that point

if you guys didn't have a repeat incident of suiciding us, we'd might be uNAPped every reset to this day.

but you guys always do boneheaded moves to LaF and then wonder why it's all happening to you.

stop nuking us and harmful spy op and topfeeding us and we will stop grabbing you.

it's very simple.

no PDM caused a lot of LaF vets to leave because of their boneheaded moves.

that was part of the reason why i left the first time, because idiots in alliances like PDM would suicide on my country for no fluffing reason.

why do you think i was like "fluff this, this game is lame?" because i come back, it is just as lame as last time it looks like.

we had a fluffing pact for the GoSu incident you retard. it wasn't unreasonable at all. if you guys thought it was unreasonable, then say so during the pact signing process and not after you suicided on our asses. it was outlined in our fluffing pact and you refused to pay up because PDM was acting like major douchebags that time. and sorry again for only bringing up the 2003 incident, but like i said i can only say things in which i have first hand experience about.

you just can't admit that your leadership fluffed up big time back in 2003 when they were one of the major alliances at that time and because of those boneheaded moves made PDM into the crap alliance it is today.

i'm not using something 8 years ago as the reason for today. that's the last thing i remembered about PDM. like i said i've been gone for a looong time. i can't talk with first hand experience things that happened in the recent history.

i was just piecing together from what h4 said and whta pdm members say that it looks like ever since the first GoSu incident where it was clearly PDM shafting LaF over with no recourse, no one ever bothered to back away.

i'm fine with backing away, but you guys should realize by being the first aggressors in a 8 year long deterioration of PDM/LaF original friendship into what it is today, you guys shouldn't so trigger happy towards LaF if you really wanted peace.

it's not a grudge.

we were over it after our FS after the GoSu incident.

as a casual observer who doesn't know the "thatguy incident" it looks like it was a habitual thing.

i can't control my own members either. but many times i sacrificed my own country to be used as land reps when i was the Don of LaF and/or the head FR of LaF. as a leader you have that responsibility to pay for your members transgressions.

if you cared so much about your own country, then don't be a VP/President/Head/etc of your alliance.

it's good that you banned GoSu and thatguy. but both times comwood/detmer/etc. should've paid the reps instead of paying us none and 70% for those instances.

i'm not talking about thatguy's incident. like i said i wasn't around for thatguy's incident.

i was the head of FR for LaF in 2003 when the very first incident of PDM suiciding (like i said it was GoSu who did it), resulted in 0 reps paid. not even 1 acre or 1 turret or $1 was sent to LaF.

the second time or third time you did it i wasn't around to know the details. but from the sounds like it you guys repeatedly suicided LaF and never paid in full the second time.

it was like deja vu again i'm assuming, and again i wasn't around to have anything details on the "thatguy" incident other than it sounds like deja vu to me.

nukevil: thank you.

that's what LaF did after GoSu suicided on LaF back in 2003 (it's all coming back to me now) and PDM refused to pay. we FSed them the following reset (because we didn't renew the pact)

after the FS though, PDM wanted to get revenge and suicided on LaF on a future netting reset. and the cycle continued until PDM/LaF tensions are the way it is today.

the cycle never broke because PDM thinks they are in the right, and LaF thinks they are in the right.

as h4 stated (and i now remember), PDM was the first one to ever start worsen LaF/PDM relations. we were LDPed for the longest time (starting from their PoW days).

we never asked to get suicided in our stocking phase by a long time pacted ally.

what if PDM suicides on evo countries when you are pacted during their stock phase and then refuse to pay up?

how would you "diffuse" that situation mr. tension diffusing master ;P

nope, i know locket's country # and its not #449. try again.

then you are worthless noise to me.

i want the guys who do have that information ;P

like i said, either give me a name or stfu about your conspiracy theory. because the more you push it, the more fishy i think you guys are.

it's nice that you guys approve of his actions because you go at all lengths to protect his identity. if i was pushing that agenda i would do the same also.

you are right, it's much better to have ones that actively want to farm PDM to the ground every reset without even trying to have peace.

then i won't ruin your precious "ruin LaF reputation plans" because there will be less holes in your "strategery"

just provide the name.

maybe privately the ips/posts he made/etc.

any clue will help deduce that person's realy identity if he really was "new".

but i doubt he was "new"

if you don't even give any fluffing clues, then you are just wasting time (or you know the truth already), you just don't want to let the cat out of the bag.

actually it makes even more sense now. you guys probably knew you were going to get FSed by RD and yet pretended to do nothing and play the victim card to get brownie points from your butt buddy theorkinman

but at least i have closure now and i leave this at least more peacefully than yesterday (i came back because i had that unsettled feeling inside me, so i came back to read hoping to find out some answers and i think i got it).

the way i see it.

1) LaF wanted peace
2) PDM didn't want peace because they goal this reset was to tarnish LaF's reputation and was willing to die for it
3) PDM died.
4) ?
5) Profit?

and i remember the minute we grabbed other people, PDM heads and leader types were all over AT pushing their agenda of the "evil farming LaF", so they definitely played their AT propaganda part

Thanks for your time. I won't respond anymore until you tell me who #449 is.

actually the name is highly important. your refusal of providing it just makes this more fishy, considering i gave full disclosure earlier and you are still trying to hide fluff

that would make sense.

i know detmer almost wanted to make PDM a LaF suicide brigade that comes every reset.

since they were already on a suicide mission, they basically "suicided" this reset and dedicate their efforts to try to fling LaF's reputation in the mud in front of the AT community.

as just a member snawdog, you don't know fluff about the real politics of the server.

you still didn't tell me who he is.

are you sure he was a n00b? maybe its first reset in PDM but he's actually from another alliance just trying to stir the pot?

i don't buy that he is a completely new player.

like i said again if you are really into solving this, chase the trail while its hot...

otherwise PDM's insistence of not doing so makes me believe that they did this on purpose to try to tarnish LaF's reputation.

i already read the messages that you guys was thinking of disbanding in the past with the sole purpose of suiciding on LaF.

if i was to fire up the conspiracy theories, maybe this was your "flawless" conspiracy plan.. to put your own alliance at risk (aka so no one is going to accuse you of doing this), for the sole purpose of ruining the reputation of LaF. you should really look at your own leaders.

they were already willing to make your alliance a dedicated "LaF suiciding machine" already, so "trying in their best interests to keep PDM alive" is a joke

i just want two things

1) who ran #449
2) if you want to use methods that are easy to make mistakes on (like using harmful spy ops) as part of your official policy, you should also be open to accepting mistakes made onto you because of your own policy

the more i think about it the more i wished this was actually a planned thing i did with RD back in 2005.

"hey yo RD, i bet in 6 years PDM is going to have some lame ass policy with harmful spy ops and nuke retals. so how about this. i'm going to retire for 6 years, and then i'll come back then and we can collude to fluff them up!"

i am like SO forward thinking. call me fluffing nostradamus

very well said. but my point isn't on RoRs.

my point was on how we were trying to retal PDM's harmful spy ops (which ended up being #449) and chose the wrong ones.

there's a difference. countries like rockman's (who never even hit PDM at all this reset until the recent alliance wide farming spree) got hit by harmful spy ops by PDM.

i already addressed this. i was wiling to accept their nuke retals and even spy op retals for the sake of peace evo style. it was their new landgrabs and unprovoked harmful spy ops that we were trying to retal. the new landgrabs were retaled mostly cleanly, but the problem is that the harmful spy ops were hard to retal.

your policy is written in english, but because you guys use harmful spy ops as legit retals, it makes it easy to make mistakes when you track it.

it can be written in fluffing french for all i care, a simple google translate can preserve its meaning fine.

its not the language, it's fluffing applying it that is impossible to do without pissing people off for even wasting the time to do so, let alone doing it correctly

your own alliance realized spy op retals are probably not a wise idea after all of this. you are the only idiot who still doesn't think that.