Is there a particular range for returns on SSes and PSes that is public knowledge? I thought they were somewhere around 7% and 10%, but I was wondering if there were any more specifics on those numbers.

This has come up in several FA issues recently, so any information would be helpful.

Thanks

Isn't is relative to your comparable nw's? (i.e. a straight %age wouldn't give it - it depends on the attacker & defender nw's)

I don't have an answer but it should be very easy to test in FFA.

best results should get when att and def are around same nw.

Here ya go:
http://forums.earthempires.com/...;z=repost-of-new-lg-rules

right.... that gives info on CS destruction, different returns on bottomfeeding, and ghost acres, but nothing about what the range of returns (in theory) could be. I suppose what I'm looking for is a an approximated max and min % of land taken (not incl. ghost acres). If qzjul or anyone else has the information available, it would also be interesting to know how exactly the likelihood of each value in the spread would occur--ignoring variables like nw, etc.


In case it's unclear what I'm looking for, let me give an example:
Country A is 15k acres, Country B is 22k acres.
Country A hits Country B for 3.5k acres (plus 1500 ghost).
Country A is now 20k acres, Country B is 18.5k acres.
Country A & B's representatives discuss retals--Country A's representatives assert that Country B can retake all of the land lost in a single hit.

I'm representing Country B, and I want to know how feasible it is to take back 3500 acres from Country A in a single hit. If Country B gets some milstrat tech, is there a 10% chance of taking back the 3500 acres? 5%? 30%?

Hopefully that wasn't too convoluted.

min for SS: ~0.3%
max for SS: 100%

:P

LMAO@Slagpit

i think the max unmodified SS is near 7% or so if you exclude the min 10 bit....

hm. and PS is what, around 15%?

1.5x whatever an SS is ;) so lik1 0%

but that's unmodified; tyr & MS can make it go up from there

related question.

country A has 5m nw 10k acres attacks country B 10m nw 20k acres = what returns?

country B has 10m nw 20k acres attacks country A 5m nw 10k acres = what returns?

country C has 10m nw 10k acres attacks country B 10m nw 20k acres = what returns?

country B has 10m nw 20k acres attacks country C 10m nw 10k acres = what returns?

country C has 10m nw 10k acres attacks country A 5m nw 10k acres = what returns?

country A has 5m nw 10k acres attacks country C 10m nw 10k acres = what returns?

i don't want gov't or tech bonuses factored in, just theoretical differences in returns due to differences in land sizes vs networth differences.

nws are close so prolly +- 10% of defenders land.

so a country with half or double the networth would have the same returns as a country with the same networth?

best results if nws are close and then decreases if nws have big difference.

what about land?

would a country with 10k acres attacking a country with 25k acres get better returns than a country with 40k acres attacking the same 25k acre country? assuming all are equal networth?

if country has alot land (let's say 25k) then returns are of course better than if it is mediocre land (around 10k).

what's a "big difference" in nw?

+-50%

1800 acres



500 acres



1400 acres



700 acres



500 acres



900 acres

hahaha, funny and true

this contradicts what marshal said about equal nw getting better returns. which is right?

Unless there has been some change to the land gains formulas between E2025 and EE, mine are right. I just looked for announcements relating to changes in attack gains and I couldn't find any. Also, Marshal's numbers are 'prolly' where as mine are actually calculated.

isn't ghost acres a difference?

My calculations do not include ghost acres, you are right about that. Strictly speaking that is dependent on building information which is not provided. The ghost acre formula is described in an announcement post that one can use to supplement what I calculated.

Cool just checking ;)

Detmer's numbers are largely incorrect, sorry Detmer!

Well, I did stipulate that is barring changes to the land grains formula, which I was afraid was a possibility. I am not disappointed (well I am in that it will require making some FFA accounts to redetermine the formula).

i thought the formulas did change? that's the main reason i'm asking. cuz before you could topfeed with a low nw country and get some major gains, but now it seems that topfeeding does not work so well; or at least not like it did.

??

We didn't change the land return formulas from the latest in the old game.

I am skeptical my numbers are off then. I first learned the land gains formula in 2003 from a LaF pal, have seen it several times since, including most recently a list of E2025 formulas from qz =P

Edit: In reviewing your SS percentages I see you listed .3% to 100%. I believe you meant 3% to 100%

i think 0.3% is correct if hits on country just in range downwards.

Have you EVER grabbed a 10k acre country and gotten 30 acres in return? I don't remember how much maximum DRs reduce things, but even then I doubt it is that much.

at old earth mosts tgts were small countries (200-300 acres avg per hit) and at ee tgts have been big (avg gain per hit 2kish).

Coutry A has 10k land 5 mil nw
hits
country B 20k land 5.5 mil nw

vs.

Coutry A has 10k land 5 mil nw
hits
country B 20k land 25.5 mil nw

everything else equal-

why is it that the first one will yield more land then the second one?

1st hit nws are close to eachothers while at 2nd hit def. is much bigger than attacker (if 5m nw country breaks 25.5m nw country then def's defense is teh fluff).

but why would the returns be different

exactly what i'm trying to figure out. in 2025 that 2nd hit would have given better returns because B's nw was much higher. but it seems in EE big nw differences lessen returns. right??

agreed -
makes no sense -

well, it discourages topfeeds.
i'm looking for confirmation on whether this is correct or not?

You misunderstand the way grabbing returns worked in the old game.

mehul changed grabbing rules few times, he even encouraged topfeeds but that got changed quickly and then to get best returns would be gotten from around same nw tgts.

why any1 would want to make topfeed (besides suiciider)? attacker gets retalled land:land (and some alliances might include ghost acres on amount of land to be taken) and if drops land might get looked as suicider and 1st farmed and then killed.

You get (got) a percentage of the defender's land which was dependent on your NW ratios. This percentage was augmented and diminished by military strat tech and DRs. The tiers were 3%, 5%, 7% and 9% of your opponent's land with minimum returns of 10 acres.

enlighten us.
:P

why keep the formula and % cut-offs a secret?