Verified:

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 28th 2010, 20:14:01

Originally posted by joe2:
Nice post detmer....then again you could explain how you have access to that thread? Oh wait unless you are doing something you shouldn't be you don't have access to it. Also if you really wanted to screw around with that post you would have posted the whole thread where there was also joking about farming LaF and how PDM should get some retal capable countries. Also that the threads whole point was for Collab to take it easy on PDM and possibly even Pact PDM. But that wouldn't serve your intentions would it?


My intention was to show that this was premeditated on Thomas' part. Do you WANT me to post it all up? If that is what you want you are welcome to do that. I understand the initial intention of the thread. No one has posted anything about AxA here though - he and other people were clearly quite reasonable about this in that thread.

I can assure you I haven't broken any rules of the game nor US law to obtain that post so I actually wasn't doing anything I shouldn't have been...

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 28th 2010, 20:24:30

I didn't say you had broken "rules" I said you were most likely doing something unethical that you shouldn't to obtain that information. As you and I both know that spying is typically frowned upon.

While you're there taking information from our boards why don't you also look up where Thomas has said he would stop and then the alliance you claim is so innocent in all of this used information that can only be gained by our members against him?

Of course that would make it look like PDM isn't squeeky clean as you want to be portrayed and hope people feel sorry for you.

While you're on our boards take some time to learn how an alliance should be run and handled, perhaps that could save PDM.

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 28th 2010, 20:45:52

I thought it was only appropriate to post this, even though we DON'T have any spies in Collab (the post was leaked -- n00bs).

XIII. THE USE OF SPIES


1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

3. One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present
help to his sovereign, no master of victory.

4. Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good
general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond
the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge.

5. Now this foreknowledge cannot be elicited from spirits;
it cannot be obtained inductively from experience,
nor by any deductive calculation.

6. Knowledge of the enemy's dispositions can only
be obtained from other men.

7. Hence the use of spies, of whom there are five classes:
(1) Local spies; (2) inward spies; (3) converted spies;
(4) doomed spies; (5) surviving spies.

8. When these five kinds of spy are all at work,
none can discover the secret system. This is called "divine
manipulation of the threads." It is the sovereign's
most precious faculty.

9. Having local spies means employing the services
of the inhabitants of a district.

10. Having inward spies, making use of officials
of the enemy.

11. Having converted spies, getting hold of the enemy's
spies and using them for our own purposes.

12. Having doomed spies, doing certain things openly
for purposes of deception, and allowing our spies to know
of them and report them to the enemy.

13. Surviving spies, finally, are those who bring
back news from the enemy's camp.

14. Hence it is that which none in the whole army are
more intimate relations to be maintained than with spies.
None should be more liberally rewarded. In no other
business should greater secrecy be preserved.

15. Spies cannot be usefully employed without a certain
intuitive sagacity.

16. They cannot be properly managed without benevolence
and straightforwardness.

17. Without subtle ingenuity of mind, one cannot make
certain of the truth of their reports.

18. Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every
kind of business.

19. If a secret piece of news is divulged by a spy
before the time is ripe, he must be put to death together
with the man to whom the secret was told.

20. Whether the object be to crush an army, to storm
a city, or to assassinate an individual, it is always
necessary to begin by finding out the names of the attendants,
the aides-de-camp, and door-keepers and sentries of the general
in command. Our spies must be commissioned to ascertain these.

21. The enemy's spies who have come to spy on us
must be sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and
comfortably housed. Thus they will become converted
spies and available for our service.

22. It is through the information brought by the
converted spy that we are able to acquire and employ
local and inward spies.

23. It is owing to his information, again, that we can
cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy.

24. Lastly, it is by his information that the surviving
spy can be used on appointed occasions.

25. The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties
is knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only
be derived, in the first instance, from the converted spy.
Hence it is essential that the converted spy be treated
with the utmost liberality.

26. Of old, the rise of the Yin dynasty was due to I
Chih who had served under the Hsia. Likewise, the rise
of the Chou dynasty was due to Lu Ya who had served
under the Yin.

27. Hence it is only the enlightened ruler and the
wise general who will use the highest intelligence of
the army for purposes of spying and thereby they achieve
great results. Spies are a most important element in water,
because on them depends an army's ability to move.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

BobbyATA Game profile

Member
2384

Jun 28th 2010, 20:50:27

what exactly is the difference between spies and someone who leaks internal posts?

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 28th 2010, 20:51:57

well, joe2 was insinuating we had a plant in Collab.

there is a difference between being deceptive by purposefully making an account to infiltrate an alliance, and having an already established member leak the info of their own accord.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 28th 2010, 20:54:21

Wow Tan stretching things a bit are we?

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 28th 2010, 20:59:49

Originally posted by joe2:
Wow Tan stretching things a bit are we?


there's never a wrong occasion to quote Sun Tzu!
FREEEEEDOM!!!

Thomas Game profile

Member
1763

Jun 28th 2010, 23:02:21

[quote poster=Detmer]
Thomas µ [War-VP]

Alliance: Collab
Server: Earth Council
Divison:
Posts: 2603
*Best restart - 755 Hits, 203,024 civs - Feb-Mar '10*
Jun 18, 2010 5:54 AM
:)

I made it clear at the end of last set I was going to farm them. [/quote]

Thomas µ [War-VP]

Alliance: Collab
Server: Earth Council
Divison:
Posts: 2713
[Best restart - 755 Hits, 203,024 civs - Feb-Mar '10]
Jun 22, 2010 5:45 PM
I probably shouldn't have made that comment. Yes I have hit them, but I don't have a vendetta against PDM. There is history between them and I stemming from when I was a Senate member there. I wouldn't have waited three or four resets or however long it has been to go after them if those were really my intentions.

I've grabbed them but I've also hit Rogue and several others. Land is scarce and so we have had to hit the countries we can. As AxA said, once he pointed out the amount of attacks we made on them, that I wasn't even aware of, we slowed down drastically. It would have stayed that way had #195 not started double tapping countries that were not the aggressors, rather than retalling the hits on their tag which he had every right to do.

The last thing we want to do is force players off this server. I actually had a conversation with Rolangunslinger from PDM a few days ago about this very issue. I didn't have any intentions on following through with my comment about farming them, otherwise there would be a lot more attacks by me on their tag. I talk a lot and a lot of it is usually just hot air.

I'd like to talk with you in private if we could.


---------------------

I guess this post didn't help your cause so it was left out.

But lets talk about how Thomas planned to farm PDM all along, and not that PDM wasn't wise enough to create tag protection. Find me an alliance that won't take advantage of free land.

Edited By: NukEvil on Jun 29th 2010, 0:00:19
See Original Post

Drow Game profile

Member
1982

Jun 28th 2010, 23:17:20

meh. i already freely admitted I failed to ensure that we had retal countries. My false belief that there was no real ill will towards paradigm that would lead to farming. Our big beef, with LaF, settled after laf generously dropped their remaining reps.
And yeah, our member retalled incorrectly. Did your leaders look for myself or bodyman to resolve it? No. You chose to kill our member without so much as a heads up.
But enough of this political crap and justification bullfluff.
Lets have some more fun already.

Paradigm President of failed speeling

"EE's DILF" - Coalie

Thomas Game profile

Member
1763

Jun 28th 2010, 23:20:44

The only FA contact was from Rolan and he's not even a leader-type in PDM anymore.

Joe

Member
119

Jun 29th 2010, 7:23:00

Originally posted by paladin:
Originally posted by Thomas:
I'm going to have sex with Drow on the battlefield.


*Gets out the camera*

-Paladin
Paradigm Retirement Home Manager


paladin sighting! i guess he isn't imaginary afterall, unlike certain town

Drow Game profile

Member
1982

Jun 29th 2010, 14:05:17

thomas: you have me on MSN, axa I have since added you. it's not like it would have been hard to find me :P

Paradigm President of failed speeling

"EE's DILF" - Coalie

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 29th 2010, 14:09:18

Drow, don't bother.

Our contacts are listed in the Contacts/Tag thread stickied at the top. They made no effort to contact us, and we didn't make any effort to contact them.

Both are at fault, but Collab should have had the DECENCY to at least make an effort to contact us before killing Bodyman.

Also, why didn't they bother sending you or Bodyman a forum message?

Nothing they say is credible at this point when it comes to not knowing our contacts, since it's posted plainly in the tag/contacts thread.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 29th 2010, 14:25:47

I think not bothering is what got you into this mess in the first place

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 29th 2010, 14:30:36

Originally posted by joe2:
I think not bothering is what got you into this mess in the first place


Goes both ways. What mess is this? Your preemptive strike against an alliance 1/4 your size? (what you were preempting I have no idea, I explicitly told AxA we weren't going to do anything).

I know trying to be a bully makes your e-peen grow three sizes in length (girth stays the same), but you actually aren't proving anything by acting out like this.

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 29th 2010, 14:42:02

and remember, YOU were the guys who went back on your word and hit us despite us being placed on DNH.

don't act like you are an innocent party here, and don't act like your leaders did not also share some of the responsibility for making contact with us.

we BOTH did a crap job of communicating -- but we didn't run any unauthed KRs on you either, let alone starting a war.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

Sir Balin Game profile

Member
652

Jun 29th 2010, 15:15:59

<enter Pang or SS>
<!-- If SS, downgrade spelling and insert heh or meh liberally -->

Well, what you fail to see is that PDM is constantly asking to be preemptively FSed by virtue of being a small alliance and not rolling over to bullies. The one PDM member who hit Collab in the same manner that they farmed the entire PDM tag was ample justification for Collab to kill off PDM countries. Honestly, I want to see PDM succeed, but you need to learn to roll over.

<exit LaF goon>
<enter Thomas>

PDM brought this upon themselves. This entire time I've been trying to help PDM by double tapping several of their countries and then saying we shouldn't hit PDM any more. I've been entirely rational about this entire ordeal, including the time I posted a screengrab on AT of a country that suicided on me and cited it as justification for FSing PDM, even though it had absolutely zero ties to PDM.

Also, wari.

<exit Thomas>

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 29th 2010, 15:17:12

Originally posted by Sir Balin:
<enter Pang or SS>
<!-- If SS, downgrade spelling and insert heh or meh liberally -->

Well, what you fail to see is that PDM is constantly asking to be preemptively FSed by virtue of being a small alliance and not rolling over to bullies. The one PDM member who hit Collab in the same manner that they farmed the entire PDM tag was ample justification for Collab to kill off PDM countries. Honestly, I want to see PDM succeed, but you need to learn to roll over.

<exit LaF goon>
<enter Thomas>

PDM brought this upon themselves. This entire time I've been trying to help PDM by double tapping several of their countries and then saying we shouldn't hit PDM any more. I've been entirely rational about this entire ordeal, including the time I posted a screengrab on AT of a country that suicided on me and cited it as justification for FSing PDM, even though it had absolutely zero ties to PDM.

Also, wari.

<exit Thomas>


You deserve a medal for that.

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 29th 2010, 15:39:46

Balin just won the internet.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 29th 2010, 18:12:56

Tan I understand that both alliances are at fault when it comes to communication and have not said otherwise. I'm also fairly certain that the hits that came after gave PDM a DNH were from Lost Lovers on Thomas using information he gained before tag jumping followed by another PDMer top feeding Thomas so I'm pretty sure it wasn't us breaking the DNH.

As for Detmer's post I can only be bothered long enough to post that when you have to resort to using insults about people's peens to try to prove your point you make yourself look foolish.

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 29th 2010, 18:34:42

Originally posted by joe2:
Tan I understand that both alliances are at fault when it comes to communication and have not said otherwise. I'm also fairly certain that the hits that came after gave PDM a DNH were from Lost Lovers on Thomas using information he gained before tag jumping followed by another PDMer top feeding Thomas so I'm pretty sure it wasn't us breaking the DNH.

As for Detmer's post I can only be bothered long enough to post that when you have to resort to using insults about people's peens to try to prove your point you make yourself look foolish.


Sounds like I hit a little too close to home if you are trying to change the topic.

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 29th 2010, 18:40:09

Detmer, I just know that you are smarter than that :P

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 29th 2010, 19:08:00

Originally posted by joe2:
Detmer, I just know that you are smarter than that :P


=)

Thomas Game profile

Member
1763

Jun 30th 2010, 0:44:45

Tissues are on Rollback at Walmart.

joe2 Game profile

Member
716

Jun 30th 2010, 1:54:15

Originally posted by Thomas:
Tissues are on Rollback at Walmart.


Sweet! cause i was watching oprah today and wow that woman really gets to me :'(

AxAlar Game profile

Member
565

Jun 30th 2010, 4:41:17

Originally posted by Thomas:
Tissues are on Rollback at Walmart.


That was awesome.

Now for a timeline:

1. Collab farms PDM

2. Collab notices and puts PDM on DNH proactively.

3. Bodyman gets bent out of shape and does 4 hits in 24 hours = farm by any alliances policy.

4. We retal.

5. Bodyman gets more bent and does 4 more hits in the following 24 hours, 8 total hits in 48 hours.

6. We kill Bodyman. It's far passed the 5 hits that we would have killed for.

7. We put you back on DNH.

8. Lost lovers detags, using info he gained in our site to topfeed Thomas and then send him a message stating he would keep grabbing him after the retals.

9. An NAer, who you probably planed in NA to suicide and cause trouble for NA, decides to randomly suicide Thomas. Gee. what a coincidence.

10. Other PDMers think it'd be good to topfeed us too.

11. We tell NA they dont need to pay reps, they kill the suicider.

12. We kill you.

----

If you don't want to die by us, make contact. Cause obviously, we're not afraid of PDM. When Rolan contacted us, we made it perfectly clear to him that we had you on DNH and didn't want to hit any further. I'm sure he relayed that message and bodyman decided to be a complete retard anyways.
-AxA
Mercenary for Hire
AIM: I The Brandon
ICQ: 167324517
MSN:

nimrodix Game profile

Member
737

Jun 30th 2010, 5:05:43

hmm sounds like the fun will be in PDM next set.

whats your site link?

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 30th 2010, 10:38:33

AxA, you forgot points 1.5 and 2.5, which goes between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3, respectively:

1.5. PDM did NOT kill any one of the Collab countries that by your standards would have qualified for death due to farming PDM.

2.5. Collab finds it odd that PDM wants some land back after getting farmed the entire time, so complains when Bodyman does the EXACT SAME THING that Collab was doing to us.

There, now the rest of the points make more sense! Happy reading.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 30th 2010, 12:58:18

Originally posted by nimrodix:
hmm sounds like the fun will be in PDM next set.

whats your site link?


http://www.boxcarhosting.net/...start.php?clanID=paradigm

Strife Game profile

Member
251

Jun 30th 2010, 14:25:12

*Laughs at point 8*

ld Game profile

Member
269

Jun 30th 2010, 14:47:20

stop being lame tan and avoiding the fact that tho you farmed us and we farmed you... we retaled the hits and your clan did not. you just kept grabbing and getting retaled and RoRing the hits. So then you died...

stop crying and looking for sympathy, you nor any PDM will find any, except Orkin who got grabbed 4 times because we were sick of you guys hitting countries that were all x and were peacefully netting.. to make a point we hit your most peaceful country at the time(1jetps). But since have regretted sinking to your level and have sent orkin the reps that he deserved.

Edited By: ld on Jun 30th 2010, 15:04:05
See Original Post

TheORKINMan Game profile

Member
1305

Jun 30th 2010, 14:53:07

In the interest of full disclosure Collab did apologize and send me reps.
Smarter than your average bear.

H4xOr WaNgEr Game profile

Forum Moderator
1971

Jun 30th 2010, 15:07:29

it seems to me that Balin doesn't have much of a handle on LaF's policy stances at all.

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 30th 2010, 15:44:01

Originally posted by ld:
stop being lame tan and avoiding the fact that tho you farmed us and we farmed you... we retaled the hits and your clan did not. you just kept grabbing and getting retaled and RoRing the hits. So then you died...

stop crying and looking for sympathy, you nor any PDM will find any, except Orkin who got grabbed 4 times because we were sick of you guys hitting countries that were all x and were peacefully netting.. to make a point we hit your most peaceful country at the time(1jetps). But since have regretted sinking to your level and have sent orkin the reps that he deserved.


Who cares who is an innocent party or not? You farmed the entire clan. Therefore, your clan is open to farming.

I can see you like double standards though. Collab can farm whoever they want, but PDM is only allowed to retal and to not farm back.

So any hits we make are considered unlawful because they WEREN'T retals.

Piss off.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

nimrodix Game profile

Member
737

Jun 30th 2010, 16:22:33

sooooooo
PDM will be running retal countries next set right

dustfp Game profile

Member
710

Jun 30th 2010, 16:23:42

tan, it is up to each clan to protect it's own rights

Edited By: dustfp on Jun 30th 2010, 16:26:30
See Original Post
-fudgepuppy
SancTuarY President
icq: 123820211
msn:
aim: fudgepuppy6988
http://collab.boxcarhosting.com

TAN Game profile

Member
3399

Jun 30th 2010, 16:32:53

Originally posted by nimrodix:
sooooooo
PDM will be running retal countries next set right


I'll be running a dedicated Commie/Indy-Farmer hybrid right oop.

Worked well enough while I was untagged, and it worked wonders while I was tagged. So we'll see.
FREEEEEDOM!!!

iXenomorph Game profile

Member
406

Jun 30th 2010, 18:01:31

why are you guys so angry

JUST WAR!!!
"Have you ever noticed how a cat is genuinely sad when the mouse they are playing with dies ???" - Prima

Detmer Game profile

Member
4280

Jun 30th 2010, 18:45:46

Originally posted by iXenomorph:
why are you guys so angry

JUST WAR!!!


I don't think anyone here has really expressed any anger...