Abuse being an untagged? Is that even possible?

Looks more like you want to protect idiots that do stupid land grabs, because they are unskilled.

You want to be the big brother and hold the hands of your members, but that is in itself a problem your policies are geared in a way that makes your members think they are enlightened to their land + some, and that they don't really need any kind of skill or calculations of their own, after all the super harsh policy does all the work for them.


Losing land is only a problem if you don't get it back, or the break to get is back is super high.

Farmers can hit all set long and that will probably improve their finish and allow a faster destock, cashers are trickier, but can still work if done well, only ones that stop hitting early are techers.

All in all there is some sort of feeling that you are enlightened to your land and the land of your opponents.

If by hitting a country takes 1000 and creates 800, you want 2000...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

i'm guessing "entitled" would be the proper word, but feeling a bit lazy to check the spelling.

bonus and go sanct

Yep that's the one :)

I slept 4 hours total :(

In the end, the whole point of a retal policy is to protect a clan's members, is it not?
And, as Thomas said, not once did he threaten war, so anyone who mentions that as a reason for PDM FSing us is blantantly ignoring the truth...

Seriously? This is what your interpretation of his statements were? Did you HONESTLY think he was threatening a rough game of paddy cakes?

*sigh* i dont understand why everyone tries.... PARTY A is gonna say/do/believe one thing PARTY B is gonna say/do/believe something else.... hasnt it always been this way?

god how i miss the old days....

So you want FAs to read between the lines of possible threats to realize they're jokes. I'm sorry, I would have taken it at face value as well.

As far as the whole 50% bullfluff, what would you do if RAGE told you that if you don't like what they do to you that you can go suck on a part of the male anatomy?

People will see it how they want, but he didn't make any threats. He said "So even though our guys want to net, they know we'll go to war if necessary and have no complaints. I'll tell them to buy Tanks for the PDM FS."
Never once did he say that we're going to attack PDM, he was saying that if PDM wants to escalate it, we won't back down.

Words can be a double edged sword. Be careful how you phrase them in your dealings.

I actually agree with Detmer here. Any single FA from a single alliance should be sufficient to represent his alliance, an alliance should not have to contact a second or third FA from the other party in order to "fish for a more favorable outcome". In this case, Thomas was the FA contact. How many of you always go "I think I'll talk to Hanlong instead" when dealing with LaF?

While things could have turned out better, I do think Sanct could probably have done more to avoid war... The market prices this reset is ridiculous.

OK, for the record - Axa, I fluffed up and should have went straight to you, you and I have not always been peachy (mostly my fault) and Thomas was right there and talking - so I tried to sort it with him. He literally walked out of the conversation with me and I kept chasing him instead of you or Nole. A lot of people lost a great set and I probably could have saved it if I'd swallowed my pride and contacted you instead of fluffing around with Thomas. Thats on me.

Now, Thomas is a war leader and when a war leader makes threats - people tend to take them seriously. If any other HWar said the things Thomas said, there would be no 'reading between the lines'. Thomas has a serious beef with PDM and nobody put it past him that he would escalate.

As for the tag-jumpers, fluff 'em, bring it. Anything that increases the body count for either side makes me happy.

LCN - in an online game where the phrase 'that alliance is a class act' gets used less often than 'hey, I got laid last night!', you guys have consistantly lived up to the highest standards. LCN, you guys are a class act and we are honored to fight you and honored to to share the server with you. You were sancts DP, they called, you came, end of story.

their complicity with the Sanct/KSF detagging/stocking/retagging fiasco really hurts the class argument -- a sentiment echo'ed by several of LCN's allies as well. :p

meh, the way I see it - we figured on killing all 29 of sancts tagged countries when we went to war, this just enables us to do it circuetously. fluff happens

how do you spell circuitousley?

For the scant members to do that crappy tag jumping like that, even when we showed such grace by not killing them... Then for LCN to allow the cowards to join their tag to hit is a mark against them.

I agree with pang on that!

A few of the recent posts make me giggle!

LCN sucks

Amen, brutha

I am sorry Dustfp, if Thomas does not realise what he said was a threat of war he should not be doing FA.

telling people to go "suck a fluff" and walking out on a conversation are also, threats of war. even if you dont like the other alliance you treat FA's with respect and act with diplomacy regardless of the situation. If your FA's act rude, obnoxious and show a complete lack of respect then that will cost your alliance. It would even be a good enough reason for an FS if you ask me!!!


IMO PDM tried to sort this out, Thomas single handidly caused this war with his actions in that FA discussion, if he did not have the authority to threatn war he should of gone back to whoever is i charge and advise the discussion and told PDM FA's that someone else would contact them.

On a side note those tag jumpers are just pure fluffes...

oh ps, i like sanct more than PDM too just an FYi if you think i am biast, Axa and sanct took me in and i enjoyed playing there more than any other alliance bar imag.

To Pang and any others curious about the tagjumper situation:

I made the mistake of not doing my research deeply enough when I gave the tag. My impression was that the countries were tagged KSF before PDM FS'd Sanct, and they were supposed to have tagged to LCN more than 48 hours prior to when PDM FS'd LCN. Obviously that didn't happen. I've asked the three countries involved (and they have confirmed) that they to hold all hits until we can resolve this in an equitable manner, and I've been working with Detmer and Kya to figure out an appropriate solution. I'm sorry that my delinquency reflected poorly on LCN--it was my mistake alone, and I'm trying to resolve it now.

[like]

Purposeful seems to be a very cool guy.

cool glad that's FINALLY resolved... will you guys be making restitution for all the hits they made on us over the first few days?

Also, this is an honest question I've brought up to a few LCN'ers in private: are you guys claiming that PDM hit you guys and that LCN wasn't planning to FS PDM in defense of Sanct like an hour and a half later? I haven't really seen any posts which concretely state your reasons for war/opinions either way.

Our "FS" on you guys was basically just running some LCN targets at our next chat, knowing it was going to become a MAJOR uphill struggle as soon as you guys jumped in. Are you guys planning on putting out a war dec or anything, or just letting anoniem's fake PDM dec stand as-is?

Finally, how does it make you feel that your ally that ruined your netting also set you up to conflict with another ally (KSF), who was policing for the alliance you were about to go to war with, and was also the home of tagjumpers, who initially jumped to avoid being killed by PDM? It's really too bad you guys threw away your netting round to waste it hitting us for an ally who really dropped the ball this round.

SPIN PANG SPIN

DANCE DANCE DANCE

haha jesus pang.. what are your a reporter?

Absolutely!

NO ZEN = NO WIN

I'm glad to see LCN addressing the issue with the Tag Jumpers. It further proves that my opinion and many others of LCN being a class act is valid.

LCN lost a netting set but gained PDM's respect, it seems.

PDM hasn't warred in a while. We'll try to keep up and give you guys an enjoyable rest of the set.

IMO the Tag jumpers should self delete and save everyone the hassle of posting about it :)

We handle stuff like that in private. We're in communication with KSF/PDM to sort this out.



Well, you hit us first, so you probably can assume that it's because you killed 3 of our members.



See above.




We feel damn good knowing that when a good friend comes calling for help, we drop whatever we're doing in order to help them. The only thing/event LCN is concerned about was that Sanct asked for our help. Anything else surrounding the situation just really doesn't matter to us.

That's basically all that we've got to say on the situation. We tend to stay away from discussing stuff on AT so if anyone has any concerns you can find our contacts at:

http://wiki.earthempires.com/..._Alliances#La_Cosa_Nostra

Trife
LCN HFA

Although these are primarily FA discussions (as Trife pointed out), I'll indulge:

1. Yes, restitutions are on the table, especially in the case of #155, who probably should have been dead, since he received amnesty in KSF *after* a killrun on him had already started (when SDI was bought out, for that matter). For the others, it's more of a matter of what the specific arrangement among PDM, KSF, and Sanct stated about restrictions on those countries. I know what the implications of the amnesty were, but I want to confirm the strict reading of the agreement.

2. I think it's pretty obvious to all who care enough to even give it a cursory look that we intended to FS PDM in defense of Sanct. That being said, as war declarations are generally a unilateral beast, no, I haven't been inclined to write a war declaration. A First Strike is still a First Strike, no matter how timid or weak it is. Once PDM declared war on LCN (even if via a "fake" war declaration that was confirmed by PDM leaders), I consider it a moot point.

3. I think Trife summed up our position on our "feelings" about the war well. The question of the tagjumpers, as I've made abundantly clear, is being dealt with cordially. I believe it's strengthening our relationship with KSF, and I've had very productive talks with Detmer. And, as anyone who witnessed the single glove picture knows, TAN and I get along just fine. =)

I'd be happy to discuss any of the aforementioned issues in greater detail in private, but I'd rather not air out anything more up here. I believe the major concerns have been allayed.

lol

ok, that's some interesting spin on the war dec stuff.... at least you admit that you were planning to hit us a few hrs later.

and I don't discuss stuff in private -- I'm not a PDM leader.

Axa: I don't need to spin when the truth is abundantly clear and was shown on AT for all to see -- I mean... that's why sanct has 0 support on this issue, re-read this thread. (Besides from LCN who I'm sure is secretly livid about fighting a pointless war they had no interest in being in for the nth set in a row :p)

does PDM secretly stand for PangDetMer?

no, it stands for Perpetually Delinquent Misfits.


thanks

There's more red tape on this server than Macy's on Christmas Eve.

you act as though what's been said on AT is the whole truth, or truth at all
people should realize that it very rarely is

FACT:

AxA wishes he was preggers with Justin Bieber's baby

There, whole truth on AT

I'm not sure I would wear the AT seal of approval crown too proudly ;).

With that said and getting away from the PDM rationale, as an averager LCNer I thought PDM was pushy all reset on retals. I was impressed our FA/Leadership kept us focused on the goals all reset and I'm fine with our decision to help an ally regardless of the case against them (save blatant cheating that ran rampant way back when and I'm not referring to any current parties involved).

I can confirm that, if nothing else

we felt the same way about you guys... that's why we were trying to get a pact in place before all this stuff started -- so we could both stock in peace.

and I'd post about other "seals of approval", but they're not public :p

edit:
ok, fine... just one:
http://static.railbirds.com/...33722seal_of_approval.jpg

The whole truth is on AT. Cryptically implying that there is more at play is patently false, unless you guys had ulterior motivations for threatening us. I think simply you guys thought we wouldn't give up our netting to stand up for our policies though and that there is no more at play.

people should have learnt something from me by now.

nobody cares about the truth. the more vehemently you try to argue the truth, the less truthful it becomes.

AT LAW Passed october 2011

That sounds a lot like real politics!

THERE IS ONLY TRUTH AND UNTRUTH.

I reiterate - class act. Its not whether or not you fluff up, because everybody does sometimes - its what you say and do to resolve the fluff up that counts.

i clearly remember sanct killing EEvil countries when a few of their members tag jumped over to try to even numbers agiant TheFist. if they dont want to look like hypocrites they should ask their police or the members themselves to remove those countries from the war.

regarding interpreting what thomas said, unless you are new to the game and have no idea who thomas is or are a sanct member you would have no reason to believe what thomas said was not threatening war. when someone who you know doesnt like your alliance threatens you, you dont assume hes "just joking"

few points:

1.) (to pang) i've got to side with LCN on this one. How is a war dec relevant or even necessary? everyone knows LCN was going to hit PDM, everyone knows PDM hit LCN first. who cares if there is a war dec. up? war decs have no meaning. Killing a country ingame has meaning:p

2.) (to AxA) typing "spin spin spin" doesn't answer the questions, it merely shows you have no answer:p

3.) (to LCN) i think that the restitution that should be given should include the death of all of the KSF countries. Just my opinion.

I approve of the seal of approval pic:p

1. This type of war makes a change from alliance x deciding to hit alliance y on day 14, but alliance y calling alliance q and z to hit alliance x and alliance p on day 5, forcing alliance x and p to scramble their back up alliances r, e and s...

2. If all of you are finding the tactics and FA dealings distasteful then its a good job your not dealing with the IX of 2006+ and SLIT. It shows how much has changed if there are dozens of posts about a tagjumper when back then the issue was spies in enemy leadership, multies/babysitting etc.

3. Did PDM have any police. If so why are those countries not dead already? Tbh I totally dislike policing in this game atm, its meaningless. If you agree to be a police for anyone you should be prepared to defend that ally to the hilt, whether it is quickly disposing of tagjumpers and coaxing the offending alliance to pay reps. I'd also like to see an alliance test out another alliance's will to police. I understand the courtsey of WarDNHs for neutrals, but if your ally hits an alliance you dont like and they get some netting alliance who you don't like to police, why not test out whether that netting alliance has the will to police rather than soaking free land without consequence.

i deleted all the trash Ironman started about admin fluff, as promised...

get back on topic, folks.

And to answer Flamey's question (which I responded to in a now-deleted post): KSF were our police, which makes the issue extra dicey... since the countries went from Sanct to KSF then to LCN...