Ignoring everything else and some of my thoughts on it.

How does this deletion stop anything from happening again? All it has done is make a group of 50 people mad at the admins instead of the people who you have tried to list.

You have punished innocents and seem to think that because of this someone will not cheat in the future? Why would this stop anyone? Banning the person and deleting all their past countries might deter it a bit but deleting others sure as hell wont.

You said you didnt learn your lesson with Hanlong/TC? You didnt even fluffing try to learn a lesson from them. You never actually tried to ban Hanlong if my memory serves me right and sure didnt try to follow up on it. You deleted 2-3 of his past countries and left it at that. So harsh! What you didnt bloody learn is that you have to come down harder on the people in question. Delete their entire account history etc. I realize that people can ban evade but not even trying to ban is just lazy and pathetic. Instead you chose to punish innocents.

Now some people will try to argue that because of the harsh punishment people will not do so again. This does not have any affect on that. Laf got gangbanged to hell for what Hanlong did and he was welcomed back with open arms and is still in leadership to this day in some capacity. So if Hanlong was let back in for putting his clan into an entire sets worth of death wtf do you think this kind of thing is going to do to stop it? Absolutely nothing.

Your punishment will do nothing to stop future episodes because an almost identical punishment was done in the past and did nothing. You have learned NOTHING from your last time. Of that you were definitely right. The funny thing about the last time is that I was actually far more mad at Hanlong for doing what he did then I have been able to be at this because now my anger is directed two ways instead of one.

You could have banned and deleted anyone who you had proof against. You could have deleted RD boxcar since the offenses took place there supposedly. You could have done many things. Instead you deleted innocents and have simply antagonized them.

I think you should reinstate the countries deleted and stick to deleting the people who you have proof did wrong. As of last night the best proof I had seen seemed to be of Copper but nothing really on the third person or even really on Silver? I havnt read the 2 new pages that appear to be argued since it is a lot of reading to do.
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And yes I am tired of being in alliances caught cheating. If anyone wants me to go to your enemies and get them all deleted by my mere presence then let me know. I demand payment though!

omg locket it was you wasn't it

I dont understand the stuff enough to possibly cheat :P Pang helped me with a website once... it was a pretty bad attempt at a website. It was funny though.

Hanlong has nothing to do with the current leadership other than he knows them. He does touch me in places I dont want to be touched...

well I've already come out publicly stating that I didn't agree with mass deletion. However, here is the main point that was presented to me which I though was a reasonable point:

- Clearly, punishing the perpetrator isn't' enough of a deterrence. This is clear by the fact that many of these abusers will even outright state that they don't care if they get deleted/banned or whatever, they are only playing for their alliance anyway etc. (this is the exact reaction hanlong took when he got caught "meh, finally an excuse to retire. I was just here to help LaF anyway").

As such, the best way to deter these people from doing these abuses, is to punish the tag they care about/are trying to help.

Once again I didn't agree with the mass deletion. But I do see the validity of that point.

The admins are Canadian and or liberal. And we all know liberalism is a mental disorder. So why did you expect them to get it right?

The only thing they did right here was deleting RD. The culprits involved should have also been permabanned. All history about them should be deleted, accounts, past countries, forum accounts, threads, posts, everything.

"Pretty soon no one will even remember they even existed" Jake the snake.

All they did here was flufffoot around.

Pang & co stepping up the security to boxcar will hopefully prevent/deter the hacking from taking place again. Deleting RD was the punishment for said hacking.

Again, your frustration/anger towards Pang/QZ should instead be directed at the RD members who put you into this position. They're the reasons you got baleeted.

How does everybody making their own thread on the issue do any benefit to the game as a whole?

There are other threads on this topic. Post in one of those or pm the admins yourself.

We get it, you don't like this at all...that has been made very clear. Although the majority of us think your anger is misguided, not all of you need to make new threads.

If the motivation for the hacking was to further the goals of an alliance, doesn't deleting the entire tag seem justified to deter it from happening in the future? There are lots of RDers who are innocent. It doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds more people who were innocent and had a much more serious action take place against them.

I don't get were you're coming from.

least i now know how to get an entire tag deleted, just in case i decide to rage quit the next time i play.

I truly agree with this. I play for my friends in MD not cause the game is fun. If I ruined it for my friends because of my actions I would feel much worse.

@mdevol I wished to discuss the punishment and simply that.

@fuji considering both the Laf and RD scandals were to benefit the whole block as a group, perhaps Laf/Sof/Rival should also be deleted. They benefited from it and had just as much knowledge (If not MORE) than the regular RD members who got hit with this.

@h4 Did you ever really feel that they tried to punish Hanlong though? He had a couple countries deleted and MAYBE was banned. I dont even rememebr them trying it and I believe that was because of the fact that they assumed people would ban evade. I remember they let some forum mod early on in EE keep playing after he cheated. Perhaps it is the fact that they are so lenient on the people they think are cheating that is not the right deterrent. I do get this thought process though but I still believe there were better options.

@fuji considering both the Laf and RD scandals were to benefit the whole block as a group, perhaps Laf/Sof/Rival should also be deleted. They benefited from it and had just as much knowledge (If not MORE) than the regular RD members who got hit with this.

Good point. But that would surly kill the game ;) and they don't want that.....

*shrugs* I voted Pirate in the last election...

Just responding to the spam comments Pang? I think my points are fair enough and at least deserve a counter argument from you or QZ. H4 offered at least a decent reason, although I have stated my thoughts on it.

I think Fuji put it well. And even if Copper's actions helped RD's allies, you can assume the leaders are doing it for their own alliance, not for others, and that's who they won't like seeing deleted when the hammer comes down.

locket for what i understood, RD asked Pang(before joining EE) if they are welcomed here. Pang gave them the green light,with the condition to NOT "fool" around like they did in E2025. And they just fooled around with one of Pangs toys and with our private e-mails and telephone numbers. I saw that one EE player has real life issues because of this. This goes beyond loosing a EE country - or 50.


Given RD history in this game and despite innocent being caught at the middle - this is a well deserved punishment for RD. A leader represents you. Their action is your action too.

there's no point in responding to this sort of stuff, you're not really listening to or accepting what I say anyway so why should I bother?

we outlined everything already, you're just choosing not to accept it. I'm tempted to close/delete this post, but I'd like you to look back on it down the line and realize what a complete tool you're being.

Good job pang! If the truth was to b known, most likely these so called innocents aren't so innocent. Most lkely they saw the lists, saw the stuff hijacked, and did nothing about it. Most likely usig it somehow to further their game play. So great job Pang! Keep up the good work!!

Pang, I think you guys need to file a police report too.

locket - you asked why delete all of RD. H4 gave you a very good argument. You ignored his argument, and then asked about the way they treated hanlong. What difference does that make? Obviously they're admitting here that in hindsight the actions they took against hanlong weren't severe enough, and this time around they needed to add additional penalties. Deleting just the perp wasn't enough, so you delete their friends.

Look at minor hockey in Canada. There's a problem with parents getting a little too excitable during games. So now, if a parent acts up, instead of ban the parent from the arena, you suspend the player from playing. That shuts parents up very very quickly.

there you go locket...you now have pang's response,,,,,so please stfu for everyone's sake

No, I want him to SQUEAL LIKE A PIGGAY some more.

Haha, I can assure you this is definitely not the case. Not for the average member.

Are you fluffing kidding me? I outlined a lot of fair reasons why this will have no affect and ignored everything else in this whole matter. Maybe you should look back on some of your past comments and see what you can be like eh? Jesus christ.

You did NOT explain the answer to the question of this thread in your main post. I ignored EVERYTHING to do with did he do it etc and simply wished to discuss the punishment. Are you fluffing scared that your reasons arent good enough?

And yes my tone has changed because you are being a fluffing fluff and making stupid assumptions that a child makes when their point is challenged. Are you a child? Didnt think so.

I have been begging for you to do this for over a year now....why should locket do it when you won't?

I didnt ignore his argument. I made a counter argument. I felt that they never actually made a real effort to punish Hanlong. This game has a history of being very light on cheaters. Hanlong got off light. That mod that started with an M in the earlier days of EE got off light. So now instead of trying to find a more focused attack on the perpetrator they go after those who did fluff all?

I even said that the point is at least semi valid. I simply believed that there were far better options available to punish the person or people behind this. I do not believe that this will have ANY affect on future cheaters and Pang oh so lovingly simply said that I was going to ignore everything he said anyways (yes he did make an ass out of himself with that assumption) and completely avoided a discussion.

So Pang. I made this post to here your thoughts and actually listen to things and wanted a reasonable reply. You didnt give it. I hope you or QZ reconsider. I want to know how this will be any different from the weak penalty given to Hanlong and everything else I said above. I am more then ready to listen to reason if it makes sense to me.

Come in here and make your case for this. I expect that even if you do reply you will do it in the tone you did above which is simply designed to annoy me I suspect.

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i dont see any meaning in just discussing the punishment only.

when a man is set on death row for murder, do u give 2shats about what his wife/mother/father/children/friends,etc will have to go through?

That makes little to no sense here considering RD are the ones who have been punished. That is like putting the wife/friends on death row with the murderer in your analogy.

RD, that is all.

not really, because the rest of RD arent being put on death row, just rebuild from the ashes.

locket, personal info was compromised. and the admins needed to set an example to prevent this crap from happening again.

although i agree with u that it sucks for those few completely innocent RD members, the parties involved knew very well that this could be one of the consequences for what theyre doing, and they still went along with it, so the deletion of the whole alliance is well deserved.

i think setting an example like this will prevent this kind of garbage from happening again.

Locket, you gave the exact explanation that the original (now) 9-page thread already gave in the first post. They recognized that they did not punish hanlong enough, and now upped the punishment.

You sound like you are trying to justify that because earlier transgressions got off light, current transgressions should also get off light, and are asking why this isn't so. Well read the previous paragraph.

Another reason given was that this scandal is far worse than the hanlong scandal. Actual passwords were compromised, this has bigger reach than simply TC adding 10m troops to a country.

So Hanlong had access to EE database, just not the EE login details and therefore passwords.....ok.

Xin I am saying that they did NOT punish HANLONG enough. They did not make an attempt to ban him from my memory. They did not delete every country he ever had and any record he ever attained. They did not attempt to reban him when he popped up again. Instead of trying other things to punish the actual perp, all they have done is cause some people to quit or be mad at the admins. Congrats.

This does absolutely nothing to deter future players from doing this.

And you completely missed the reasons given, again.

I will no longer respond.

Locket, the weight of the punishment depends on what was done.
The current scandal is far worse than what Hanlong did. Like what other players said, just redirect your hatred to your leaders and not to the admins. They're just doing this so in the future, alliances will not tolerate any members hacking/cheating. As what the admins say
, in RD's case, most of your leaders knew about the hacking.

uh no, most of the leaders did NOT know about the hacking. as a matter of fact, none knew.

But I think I've read somewhere here on AT that the info was shared to your clan. Anyway I'm not here to defend the admins. Just saying that it sure was a pretty hard decision and for sure they feel bad on involving innocent people. But something must be done.

How is it "far worse" than what hanlong did. Please, someone explain.

Mr Copper isn't even in RD leadership. He hasn't even been active in RD for several resets.

I can't get my head around any of this nonsense. It annoys me how many misinformed idiots like bertz come running with pitchforks.

locket: If memory serves, I was under the impression Hanlong/TC were both given bans

Evo and half the clans in this game have had country lists through semi legit means. Just because people knew who played which country does not mean that they knew anything about this hack that happened on the 15th or whenever.

People sit here and are trying to claim that it is everyone when evidence has pointed strongly to ONE person and loosely to another and vaguely to an unknown third.

@Xin You apparently are not reading what i said so fluff it. Why bother responding if you are making no effort to see what someone is saying?


@Drow I was under the impression that Hanlong did not get a ban and TC did for some reason or other. I think TC tried to do something else after the fact and that is why he was banned? It would be lovely if an admin would comment on it but apparently they dont like to discuss things. Do something in the back room and then keep it there is far easier. Then go and claim the other people arent listening.

They took personal information of users. You're the idiot for not getting it.

@locket You titled the thread "How does this deletion deter anything?"

You were given plenty of reasons, which you chose to ignore, because your reasoning is that Hanlong and LaF wasn't punished enough in the past, and therefore, the whole RD being deleted now is out of line.

I read what you said. You however, aren't reading what everyone else is saying, that this is a much more serious case, and punishment is increased since the previous one wasn't enough deterrent.

*stalks Xinhuan

So you are saying EE database that hanlong had access to does not contain personal information?

*face palm*

@Xin I did not say that Laf was not punished enough. I just felt as if Hanlong got off easy and if they wanted to escalate they should have escalated on the individual. I just feel as if this decision will not deter future cheaters and has only made 40-50 people mad at the admins on top of being mad at Copper

I get that it is an increased issue (although I would have assumed that Hanlong/TC with direct access to the database had much more potential for trouble than what happened here) however I do not feel that this increased range of the punishment will affect anyone else doing something similar in the future. Hanlong got Laf killed the next set too and that changed absolutely nothing obviously.

I agree with an increased punishment if this is an increased crime, however Pang has said that he learned from last time and I do not believe he learned the right lesson personally. I just dont see how this will deter anyone from trying something.

But I'm going to drop it anyways. I am clearly not going to get an admin to respond to any of the points I made.

Because the admins have already responded to all the points you've made. Personally, if I was an admin, and I kept seeing you crybabies whining about how being deleted because people in your alliance hacked a site supporting a game and tried to hack the game itself, while stealing personal information, DESPITE knowing the history of the alliance you were playing in, is soooo unfair, I'd just permaban the whiners as well as the hackers, as well as the alliance, and let the rest of the players join another alliance.

Your arguments don't matter. Your opinions don't matter. It's obvious you're just trolling for a response. Your only course of action is to clean up your alliance, then either wait until next reset, or restart now and make the best of the situation you are in now.

Actually they didnt. And I was not trolling at all. I wanted a response and discussion from them. They chose not to so fluff it.