and I think I understand why there are no new players in this game....

look at the news history of #182

Never attacked a single country except for retalling and was LITERALLY farmed to death.

This is the worst possible game for anyone to ever join. The Facebook app will fail because of things like this.

I know none of you care, but I hope everyone involved in hitting this country (at least those that RoRed and farmed to death, maybe not those who just accepted their retals and moved on) feel ashamed of yourselves. It is really, really pathetic.

yeah... thats why i commit myself into allx strats...

May have been his idea from the start,never got a chance..

I think Balingaea needs to pre-emptively post an LaF defense, along the lines of:

[meh] well we farmed it so much that it was going to be a suicider, so we decided to kill it before it suicided.

I unconditionally deny the premise that Pang and I have a love child! You have no proof!

Thats why The Fist doesnt allow farming of untaggeds... or tagged countries for that matter

LaF clearly was landkilling that country (they sent nukes as well as just grabbing). Not sure why they did that tho. He was great land for me heh=)!

I propose 10 hour rest periods for forces used in Standard Strikes. They should be allowed to defend, but not be used in SS or PS attacks.

Right... but why? I honestly don't see any reason for killing the country other than that they thought it would end up suiciding?

As far as I can tell it was pre-emptive to prevent retaliation on these attacks:

Jun 27/10 5:29:38 PM PS Wangedtanic (#370) (LaF) lulzkiller (#182) (Retal) 80 A (+50 A)
Jun 27/10 5:29:32 PM PS Wangedtanic (#370) (LaF) lulzkiller (#182) (Retal) 81 A (+50 A)
Jun 27/10 5:29:12 PM PS Wangedtanic (#370) (LaF) lulzkiller (#182) (Retal) 82 A (+51 A)
Jun 27/10 5:29:06 PM PS Wangedtanic (#370) (LaF) lulzkiller (#182) (Retal) 84 A (+51 A)

So I guess... why? Not just for LaF, but Sanct and everyone... obviously there is no sanctity of the ability to retal - just that in the end you can take more from this guy than he can from you. If you gain 1k acres this round he quits the game, I guess you won out.

even a 2 minute rest period for Standard Strikes will eliminate this sort of idiotic behavior.

yes, landkills are a part of the game, but they happen rarely enough that they can be removed or at least reduced in the game.

a 2 minute rest period might discourage landgrabbers, but the flip side of that is it will reduce farming which would be particularly helpful for new players.

either that, or eliminate untags altogether and say that in order to leave protection, you have to join a tag.

what's the point of having untags at all when they just get farmed and killed, especially if they are potentially new players?

that's why we're not pushing alliance on new players

we are conscious of the fact that Alliance players feel a sense of entitlement to their land, yet they also feel they can abuse untaggeds.

We're getting players into the solo servers while working on other solutions to the land situation, such as AI countries and whatnot.

How does a 2 minute rest period help? It would just prolong something like this.

it would prolong it by hours and would generally make it extremely inconvenient to landkill.

Fearing suicide seems like a legitimate reason to kill a country honestly. I recall an SOF country detagging midset a few sets ago and I demanded that we at EVO kill it. Of course nobody else wanted to, and 72 hours later we were hit and lost tens of billions in stock/cost killing country.

I think that is definitely wise. Anyone who started here would not stick. Primary/tournament have to be the first places players go.

Players in this server definitely feel entitled to taking other people's land without consequence and that no one else has a right to anything. That is a fine attitude philosophically - but everyone is entitled to that philosophy which has just created a very hostile environment.

I definitely think that some manner of server-run bots would help players stick at least in alliance. Need to dilute the easy-target base.

Bobby, but they are the ones who created the suicider, IF that person was even going to suicide at all.

What it looks like to me is that they killed that country for retalling their hits.

By the way, putting a 2 minute hold on SS will also reduce suiciding effectiveness as well.

i've always been a proponent of not letting you go OOP unless you're in a tag of 2 or more people in any clan based server

I disagree completely.

The BEST way to learn this game is to join an alliance and learn from those who know how to play.

You won't learn fluff playing on your own.

The best solution is to just curb bottomfeeding for the new players.

And FINALLY, I know who Earth Watcher is. ;)

So you think it is ethical to drive a country to suicide (or in this case to seemingly just retal!!!) and then to kill it? Sure you can. It might be in your best interest. It sucks for the game though. There is a reason why there are 500 players left.

And EW, ok, fine, in that case good on LaF for killing you. I still maintain that the people who RoR are basically saying that a country not in a tag doesn't have a right to exist.

as what TAN said... even if we get alot of new players from facebook, if they get farmed to death... they'll get bored and quit the game. we should minimize farming by having a rest period on Standard Strikes.

As a newb I had fun running a fluffty country. When you have low NW expectations and expect to attack and be attacked this game is fun. It is when you think you are invincible and should never be attacked that it becomes stressful and unfun if anyone hits you ever.

Detmer when I play the game in game I'm looking out for my country and my clan. I'm neither smart enough nor compassionate enough to be able to also care for others or the general good of the game.

When I make suggestions at B&S or through other venues then I'm trying to look out for the good of the game. But in game I'm trying to do one thing and one thing only every set...win. The game is best when that is how everyone is playing=)

That's true Detmer, but you can get the same experience playing untagged in Alliance.

I only played a fluffty country for a couple of weeks before joining PDM, and I had enough of a wow factor when I reached just 1m NW in bootcamp.

also i would point out #152 has been at 0 DR for over 8 hours now. I'm really not sure the farming is as out of hand as everyone always assumes it to be...

but if my troops go on leave to canada they may never want to fight again :(

Well, if you are lying about lying, then I know who you are.

If you're really lying, then I don't. ;)

I used to play that way... I just think that there is more at stake than one time NW and I am trying to look at my longterm gaming. I will never say people don't have the right to abuse and exploit others as much as they can for their own benefit. I don't think for the state of the game that they should though (personal opinion) and I DEFINITELY think that people who don't like abuse and exploitation have a right to hit back. Just me though. I don't want to diverge this off to a discussion of fighting back, but rather the sorry state of driving players off.

And EW, I don't know that I believe your first or second statement. I suppose no one in LaF stating your ops as the reason for the KR probably means you were joking, but whatever. I do believe that independent of LaF's actions that the overall news shows a pattern of systemic abuse to players.

I was playing untagged earlier in the set before tagging up PDM.

By FAR, I was getting raped the most by LaF and Collab. Was actually prepping to suicide them.

I don't know who that guy playing the country is, but he absolutely got screwed.

Lot of long term resentment and problems for an alliance who does this type of thing to a few crazy types. Interesting from my point of view, either way.

alliance server isn't for new players....

Well, there is always the argument that it's the alliance server, and when everyone's pacted to one another, it gets hard to find land.

The only thing I'd have to suggest is making an in-game pact system, where you can only pact so many other alliances, so people would be forced to go to other alliances for land, rather than just untaggeds.

How would that change anything? Just because there is nothing prohibiting you from attacking doesn't mean we won't come up with our own political system that stops that...

oh, ok... I see why they should be indiscriminately killed now...

Ahhh, CRAP...I clicked on my mouse wheel to zip on up to the top of this thread so I could get to the forum list, and I clicked it on the "Move" button...

EDIT: Fixed now. Sorry about that.

If you want to know the reason, and have a valid reason to, I'm sure you can contact our FR department and our representative will be able to answer your questions.

#370's hits were part of the land kill, and Detmer, you need to look at the news closer.

There's a distinction between "game" and "server". The majority of players on alliance only play alliance, which is fine with me, because it's always sad to see 1a entitlement attitudes moving to other servers.

As far as I'm concerned, excessive hits on untaggeds are only a symptom of the problem. It's possible to do well as an untagged: you just have to be a very good player. Is there necessarily a problem with that? No, it's a clan server, so part of your country's strength is going to be dependent on your clan. As an untagged, you chose to put yourself in the weakest position possible.

And it is indeed a choice. When is the last time a player wanted to join a clan but was unable to do so? Anyone can get recruited, even if they promise to cause nothing but trouble but for the clan that takes them.

Players hit untaggeds because there are too many forces at work that make clan to clan interaction pointless or impossible. Untaggeds don't make the server great. No one says, "Remember that awesome untagged from five years ago?" Clan to clan interaction is what the server is all about, yet most people only care about their countries if they get landgrabbed a few times and treat it as if it is some problem to solve.

i've been stating that this game will die

alliances don't care

i've already stated that it is goign to be 4-5 alliances left on alliance server and they are all going to be pacted to each other

why? because all you people are going to farm everyone smaller to death so you can have a few more sets of fun before you all kill this game

there is a huge difference between non alliance and alliance based severs. In the non alliance servers they will play rainbow type strats as they don't know about any strats.

they will come here playing rainbows and thus get farmed to death. Pang wants to bring in new members, but he, nor the other admins have stated how the hell they are going to get alliances to stop farming. Especially THEIR OWN.

The "all the alliances will get larger" in my opinion, isn't going to happen. It will be the same fluff even if alliances grow larger in size. the Farming of the smaller ones will continue thus forceing out all the new players anyways!

New players are not going to do fluff for this game as long as their alliances (as they are the big ones at this point) farm everyone that isn't in an alliance by turn 200.

As has been stated on this thread, it is "all for one" here which is quite sad

Prove me wrong. I've been playing this game way to long and have seen it again and again. If you are new or small you will be farmed. Seems now that when you are farmed, you are killed to prevent you from retaling or suisiding

Your alliance has a GREAT strat there Pang. Farm then kill

Farm then kill, farm then kill. Great way to to kill your game. You may want to talk to your idiot leaders and inform them that farming then killing the countries YOU farm is going to KILL membership :D (this goes for all the other large alliances as you won't be much of an alliance with only a few hundred players left in the game)

Yes, I frequently start killruns by hitting solo 40 minutes in advance.

But lets say that is true, and that person just wanted to get the best hits in like a true team member... you're telling me LaF killed him just because he could potentially ever become a threat? Maybe he was a threat? I guess he was retalling those guys and could retal you next if you didn't take ALL his land!

Looks to me like LaF farmed him right out of the gate, then Collab hit him some more. 182 then retals Collab a few times, then gets farmed by NeoFed, Collab, Evo, and TIE before retalling Collab again. He then gets farmed by Collab and TIE some more, with a couple hits from NA and Omega and a hit from SoF before retalling Omega.

Gets ABed by some untagged country, then farmed by Collab before retalling Collab. TIE then farms him some more, and 182 retals TIE. Some more LGing from NeoFed and Collab, while TIE farms him again.

After that, it's nothing but a landkill by LaF.

According to the news, 182 didn't make a single military attack on LaF--retal or otherwise.

TGD,

the new facebook app will suggest for new players to play solo servers, that is where we would 'recruit' from. People will stray to alliance server, but unless you have a fool proof method or suggestion, all your doing is pointing fingers, remember, you point one finger at someone, your pointing three back at yourself



Detmer,

Trust me, I would know if those hits were part of it, or wasn't. And they are.

ICQ me

Play untagged next set and show us how it's done. No secret pacts allowed. Just surreptitiously run a country that no one knows about. Since you're an admin I'll give you the leeway to run two countries, just so long as you are the only person who knows about the untagged one. It will not do well.

Fine, untags have no place on this server. I don't have access to compare which players play in which servers and maybe people who play alliance are isolated, however alliance is the largest server (assuming that most FFA players run 4+ countries) and this server is dying.

Maybe I am mistaken but this game was continued for the sake of this server. Sure, having a healthy primary player-base to recruit into this server is good for us, however I can't imagine this is an altruistic service for primary players... it is a means of keeping alliance alive. If we recruit players from primary into alliance, or people join and are farmed into oblivion while they are testing the waters, the purpose is lost. Or I don't understand the purpose.

No ICQ at work. I'll hit you up later. I'll trust that its your country and you know you were a part of the landkill. The guy did only PS four times and I have no means of proving one way or another.

And for what its worth I didn't bring this up to single out LaF.

I just think we, as alliances that want a game to be a community in, are shooting ourselves in the foot by going to these extremes against untags. Surely this player knows how to play or else he never would have been able to make those retals. It's not like if he had just sat there and taken it that he wouldn't have been farmed equally ruthlessly.

I guess there are two mindsets.
1) this server WILL die so it doesn't matter what I do, I just want to be the last man standing on top
2) this server has a chance so I will try and win within some sense of arbitrary honor and fairness that I am self-imposing just to keep this game alive

if you can't have fun playing this game unless you are as cut throat and ruthless as possible, fine, kill the game... but if you can enjoy hanging out with your friends and being an organized group trying to win, even if you don't take all the legal shortcuts possible, then I think you should.

I didn't say that I was necessarily capable of doing it, did I? I know players who are capable and some who have done it. It wasn't meant to be some kind of bragging point: as an untagged you are a weak country. That's how it is.

You seem to be slightly misinterpreting what I'm saying. I want alliances to interact with each other in meaningful ways. Landgrabs should be viewed as part of the game instead of as some problem to be solved.

Also, just because I posted the above doesn't mean that we're not taking steps to reduce some of the problems, but the main cause of it by far is player attitudes.

i recall there was a country named C R O A T I A nearly every set played untag and he was certainly more then capable of retal and surviving.

It is definitely player attitude that controls this. I feel like that trickles down from alliance attitude.

And fine, I would just like to see anyone do it. I encourage you to have someone you know who is capable of doing it be allowed to under normal exception rules just as a proof of concept. I don't think playing untagged is viable in this game for anyone. I don't think it needs to be, but things like what I see for #182 are ridiculous. I think the people who do that to players should be ashamed of themselves. They are killing their own game/server depending on how you view it.

I agree alliances should interact in meaningful ways. I think they should attack each other and should be attacked back. I think players should expect that. I think there should be a game beyond what alliance has been for 5-6 years which is all-self pact, farm every untag relentlessly and then slowly drop alliances off the bottom until they assimilate or quit. Clearly only the most resilient of players are left.

It is definitely a player attitude issue. It is up to the players and the clans they are in to keep this game alive or not. I expect untags to get grabbed multiple times a day. I expect them to finish poorly. I do not expect them to be treated like #182 was.

Standard is a heavy defense CI to early TMBR.

That IS pretty ridiculous. Lets all be honest here there wasnt any justification for what happened to 182.

I'd rather see one country get killed with no justification than a whole tag.

ORKIN,

Contact LaF FR if you are #182 and wants to know why.

Otherwise, I'll be off to China hunting dragons.

You could just tell us why :P Im clearly not #182