if its true he offered you a pact why on earth would you refuse it -_-

Perhaps the "take it,or you know what's coming" attitude?

they fought for something the set before. Should it have been anything less than a pact? They fought all set to prove themselves worthy or so I thought.

and what makes you think such an attitude existed?

I can quote the convo almost 100% accurately right here:

me: "Hey, you interested in a pact for next reset?"

ZIP: "You guys using 48 hour retal windows?"

me: "Yep"

ZIP: "then I will have to say no to a pact, but thanks for offering..."


Yes... I was so mean to them.

And you honestly believe that farming them into oblivion is the best way to enforce your 48-hour retal window?

"Accept our new retal policy or be farmed to nothing"?


Have fun playing on an empty server if that's your only way of interacting with non-pacted alliances.

we are unpacted to pretty much everyone. Do you see us farming SoF? EEVIL? SOL?

Why aren't we farming them? Its not cause we are afraid to... I wonder what it could be?

Maybe you guys should mull over that one for a while, it will go a real long way to putting you in the same position as them in the future.

Ely will never have that chance - nor will any other tag that drops below the member threshold that your mrmbers determine is not a threat. You won't grab eevil because you know who their friends are.

Hey, its their right to refuse a pact and its your right to landgrab them for it. However, it is also your job to control your members and to hold them accountable to the policies that you yourselves espouse to. We all hear that LaF rules specify that "a person is only allowed to attack an tag 2 times a day, on separate countries", and set after set, LaF leadership snickers as their out of control membership utterly ignores those rules. So the real question is, do you guys actually give a damn about curtailing your members from farming, or is LaF leadership so weak that it is incapable of policing its own house?

won't grab EEVIL because I know who their friends are?

Please... that is laughable.

I already stated that our rules are in regards to tags that are set on will retal status or higher. Ely currently is not on that status because they are yet to prove that they deserve it (and they are the only "established tag" that isn't on at least will retal).

Our members don't constantly abuse our rules, try again. Those that due are punished according to our rules. Not that our internal system is any of your business anyway.

EEVIL has nearly double the average net of the rest of the server.

As for the latest developments in this thread... lol... you guys are too much.

iMag would have been a much better alliance to use in relation to not warring.

I will not be happy until you edit your post to reflect that...

:(

Alliances don't randomly war new people who might show up.
Alliances don't tend to randomly war the same people over and over again.

But ruthlessly farming someone for one set is no worse than randomly warring someone for no reason one set.

I was under the impression that this thread was about farming, not simple landgrabs.

I have actually seen a number of posts here acting as the general desire for LaF to curb their farming is telling LaF to stop grabbing entirely. It is sort of mind boggling.

Probably because people will complain if LaF grabs anyone at all. So I just kinda assume you don't want LaF grabbing at all.

Why would people complain if LaF grabbed anyone at all? You don't see people complaining about anyone else's grabbing habits do you? This is ridiculous reasoning. You act as if you give an inch people will expect you to concede everything.

You're right. I don't see anyone else complaining about others farming.

Of course that doesn't mean others aren't farming.

Chewi, there are others guilty of farming, but from what I've seen in the news set after set after set, LaF is the largest contributor to the farming. No one is saying that LaF is the *only* guilty party here.

It's a matter of scale.

Well Ely can look on the bright side ..... if LaF keeps farming them like they have been, they wont be worth hitting in a few days.

I hope LaF keeps farming and they farm even harder.

That way all the work Pang is doing goes to waste.

Then everyone can laugh as this game finally dies through all internal cumbustion.

When every alliances bows out because there is no fun left in this game LaF will finally win and always win.

But I guess LaF loves all the bad press they get, must make them feel GREAT knowing that they are not a respectable alliance in most people's eyes. But hey, I'll let this thread and the many more to appear speak for that.

I hope LaF keeps farming and they farm even harder.

That way all the work Pang is doing goes to waste.

Then everyone can laugh as this game finally dies through all internal cumbustion.

When every alliances bows out because there is no fun left in this game LaF will finally win and always win.

But I guess LaF loves all the bad press they get, must make them feel GREAT knowing that they are not a respectable alliance in most people's eyes. But hey, I'll let this thread and the many more to appear speak for that.

Why would you hope that?

TGD the Alliance server = the entire game?

Or are LaF also the ones doing cross retals/gang bangs in the Team server or running the suiciders in Express?

fatalism mostly?

I just hate watching another small tag driven off, I actullay liked Ely pretty well. As a guy that has played in mostly smaller tags I know that its just a matter of time before LaF turns their spotlight un a tag I am in. Then when we are each getting hit 8-10 times per day, LaF will say that we are just not good retallers while they farm our pimply asses into oblivian.

I am deeply saddened that nobody picked up on my Easter Island analogy.

Breaking news! LaF found responsible for global economy meltdown as well as global warming!!!

Chewi ate the polar icecap!!!!

Do you have examples of them destroying the global economy and warming up the planet ?

No ???

Hmm ... well the farming is a little easier to prove.

That's all very true. The problems of "LaF farming everything" is more a problem in the 'targeted' alliances in terms of planning, ability to inspire people to play well, etc.

People talk all the time about how the players left e2025 over the years, but more than players the leaders started quitting after being frustrated for a variety of reasons. There are only a few alliances that have active leadership that was around during Earth's heyday.

One of the reasons LaF is able to continually perform so high is because the knowledge was passed down through the generations, and also because quite a few of those old leaders are still active in LaF :p

As we keep saying, running a tag that can deter retals is an important part of this server. Especially if you're willing to reject pacts. Maintaining retal capacity, or at least the capacity to make grabbing non-worthwhile isn't super hard, so when tags aren't achieving it that's usually the clan's leadership's fault, not LaF's.

You can't blame LaF for this problem -- there were multiple solutions for Ely to avoided being grabbed by LaFfers, they decided not to do any of them... why is LaF the villain? Why is there a villain at all anyways?

This reminds me of US politics :p
Shotgun Democrats for LaF (less crazy)

but if a clan like LaF farms you 20 hits...GL ever getting your retals for that.
even if u did a 1:1 retal. (which on 20 hits nobody would think 1:1 was reasonable) LaF would just kill you.

edit: if u are in a small say 10 man clan

But I think that's part of the problem with what all the LaF haters are saying....
LaF's not trying to target and overwhelm Ely. There is no organized policy to target Ely with grabs.

The reason people are hitting them is that they think Ely can't retal, not that we can overwhelm them by farming them. That would basically be a war-time move, not netting.

You only need 4 countries to be able to keep LaF from grabbing your tag effectively, it's not super hard to do :p

eh even if we saw 4 good countries theyd likely fall behind towards the end of the set to be fair :P

how is that exactly?

in my experience with large 1a clans (not just laf), u have 0 options.

Land is, and always will be at a premium, so ppl will get as much as they can at almost any cost.

They just farm you into the ground, defuse your missiles, CD your troops, ect. but if u do any harmful spy opps you are a suicider and are killed.
if you try to retal, even a 1:1, you are a killed.
its the big man bulling the little man kind of thing. worst part of it is after when they all cry when someone suicides them "for no reason at all"

well I'm not saying that the 4 countries will be able to compete for netting titles with other clans.... but it's the first step towards a positive playing experience... achieving your own tag protection

it's like securing your own airspace in war :p
you basically need it to do anything of consequence at all

I'd definitely wager that 4, or maybe even 3 countries could make themselves not worth it to grab

oh man... i have so many things to disagree with in Popcorn's post....

1) Most suiciders on LaF are not those who we have hit. Most are people who have hatred for other reasons, usually political. I wish we would only have people who we farmed suiciding us -- that would be awesome!

2) It's a war game... you're saying it's wrong of us to take land, but ok for people to suicide. We're saying it's ok for to take some land, but we expect to get suiciders sometimes if we do. Who sounds more unreasonable? :p

3) LaF does not kill alliances for retalling hits. LaF kills them when they start attacking OTHER players who were not involved in the hits, or when special attacks start happening. I cannot think of a SINGLE time that LaF has ever gone to war with an alliance over 1:1 retals.

4) Land has to come from somewhere... no one's trying to bully anyone, people are just hungry for resources. War alliances should start selling land to LaF early in the set for the promise of aid later when they fight! :p

There are always options.

So you're saying that it's more of Elysium's fault if they don't exist next set?

That's not very reassuring, coming from a game admin. Not very reassuring at all.

Smoke, this is fire. You two should be seen together from now on.

Where did me's post go? Why was it deleted? That seems more than a little fishy.

Pang, shouldn't you be more devoted to the game than your tag at this point?

you are misunderstanding me.

1) if say, 3 sets in a row i am turned into farm land for LaF (or another large clan, not trying to single them out) u think on the 4th set Im going to wait for them to farm me? no. I' m goin to wait till an opportune moment and repay the favor. sometimes players that really dont deserve it get suicided on, but thats what happens when u surround yourself with others that do. collateral damage.

2) same could be said both ways. but laf (or another large clan, not trying to single them out) players (not all clearly) still cry when someone "ruins there set"

3) laf and many other larg clans have killed me and clans i have been in for trying to retal there farming...its not exactly a secret.

4) Not trying to bully people, but end up doing it in a quest for land, really makes no difference, in the end its the same. thou your idea of selling land is fairly sweet.

Re: 2)

If you didn't farm you probably wouldn't get suicided. Suiciding for the sake of harm alone is probably not condoned by any group of people. I think the disconnect is usually are not aware of the reasons that people suicide on you. I used to get suicided on all the time and never knew why. I had guesses but "suiciders" rarely do a good job of explaining their point.

as i said, sometimes people are just collateral damage. if the same clan is constantly farming you every set, and one set you find a country with 200 mill bushels on hand, and very little to defend it...chances are you are going to take the opportunity to get back at the "clan" by hitting that person, even thou they personally didn't do anything to you necessarily.

I am more committed to the game than LaF... but this is a thread about LaF and Ely.... if you want me game commentary, go over to the game commentary thread :p

What I'm promoting here is that the idea that tag protection comes from within. It is not the responsibility of other alliances to provide your alliance tag protection, it is yours to achieve it.

I've always thought of "Alliance" as the "Major Leagues" of Earth. The most serious players, leaders and alliances play this server and they play for keeps. I'd rather see people elevate there game on this server rather than force serious players to curb the way they want to play. It's not like there aren't options for people like Ely -- LaF even extended the olive branch.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... 3 or 4 countries can achieve basic tag protection against LaF without a pact.... I'm happy to give out the jist of how to achieve that, as it's not overly complex :) :p


But anyways, I wish people wouldn't automatically jump on the "Pang agrees with LaF? THE SKY IS FALLING!!" bandwagon, it's getting kind of old and annoying...

I still want to know what happened to the post by "me" with the news of LaF farming. :\

i deleted it

try posting again and see if it works?
I don't think it would be too big for the db field...

As gamers you're just playing an aggressive style in a war game - fair enough. You're allowed to do that and nobody should give you fluff for it. I don't think anyone here is though. What they're giving you fluff for is that the act (however reasonable it may be within the technical and practical confines of the game mechanics) is harmful to the community and the game itself. People aren't pissed because you're farming, people are pissed because you know the game is going to lose players over what you're doing, and you come off as not giving a fluff about that.

Pang, the poster who is handled "me" posted it, not me as in Vic Rattlehead.

oh, well I have no clue then....
ask "me", perhaps? :p

You mean that one?

suicidimg has been nerfed to the point that you cant really stock steal anymore. what did you noobs think was going to happen once there is no risk farming people? devs made that game change for laf style playing. enjoy getting your asses reamed one small tag at a time =)

AMEN!