Game ruined again, I quit. Enjoy your empty servers.

I've been playing this game for like 20 years by the way. Waste of time just to have some cheater destroy you. He gets deleted but I'm still out all the time I put in. Not worth the effort. A shame cuz this is one of my favorite games, it's what made me study economics.

Join GDI, this could have been prevented.

Don't let some idiots ruin it, just learn from it. Next set you won't have to worry about the same issue. You had a great country this set. You can do it again.

People shouldn't have to join GDI not to have their set ruined by cheaters.

True, but it's the nature of express. There are a lot of cheaters lately. There needs to be an automatic detection system in this game, hopefully once the new update comes and it's easier for the admins to play around with the code they start to think about that.

Aside, what type of economics field do you study/work in?

Did they cheat and get deleted, or just self delete?

I graduated college 15 years ago with a bs in economics, psych and sociology. I just quit business to start a career in music.

It seems to me from observation that the number of cheaters has risen proportional to the drop in players. Also, I recall a time (possibly during 2025) when SUSPECTED cheaters were auto deleted, sometimes on the basis of simply a shared IP address.

King: not sure, I was pretty pissed off when I looked up the country. I don't even want to log in now.

Unfortunately these days it's pretty easy to mask IP addresses.

I realize the tech has changed I'm just frustrated. I have a hard time justifying the time sink of games anyway and I hate people who carelessly waste the time of others. Life's short.

In 2005 cheating was far more rampant than it is today. Also you were not allowed to play primary and alliance or random at the same time, then you are a multi.

Mehul abandoned E2025 in like 2001 or 2002, after that he just checked in and made some halfmeasures to keep the game dynamic enough for ppl to stay interested, but there was practically no way to get obvious cheaters deleted. Right now its far better in that regard even though the bot code needs to be constantly improved and has not been and the game formulas like NW modifyers and those concerning ops and special attacks desperatly need change since 2014.

My subjective experience is that the ratio of cheater per player has increased between 1997ish and now.

http://ncase.me/trust

Edit: Not included in game is the theory that as you move closer to the end of a series of repeating games, people are more likely to cheat. That is to say, if they don't fear the consequences of cheating and decide they can gain an advantage against people they'll never see again, they'll cheat. Since everyone will be cheating on the last repetition of the game, more will cheat on the second to last to get an advantage, then third to last, etc. What needs to be present is the idea that the game is not infinite and will end soon. Of course, everyone won't cheat, some people have integrity, but there's a bunch on express especially that don't have any integrity. It's rational, maybe more rational than having integrity except if you factor in the idea that cheating to gain an advantage is not really fun. Why play a game that has no rewards for winning with a cheater's advantage? Who knows.

sini that may be true but mods are actually somewhat active now and are allowed to delete countries.

Back in 2005 deletions might possibly happen after a few days or a week when 100-200 obvious bots had been attacking an alliance in the same sequence over and over.

in 2017 Ratski gets deleted every third set or so. in 2005 he would have been allowed to roam free.

There may be more ratskis/player right now, but you can't argue that the rules are not being enforced better now.

I agree, it was more of an observation on human nature than on this game :P The mods really do a good job considering they get no rewards, have special restrictions, and we rag on them all the time.

Don't join GDI? Don't whine when you get flattened. Cheating has nothing to do with it.

Letjeros. Returned after an extended absence not too long ago also. Had to deal with the same thing with suiciders. There are a couple of players who go after any top ten who are not in GDI. They aren't multis, as that problem has been mostly dealt with effectively by the mods and they aren't necessarily cheaters, just idiots who have no game. Had my sets ruined several times until I caught on.

The trick is to either join GDI or barring that stay out of the top ten until right toward the end of the set. Hate to see you go. I've watched your country the past few sets and you are a very good player. -v

I hate to see good players leave but I do not know why people don't take advantage of GDI. It is there to keep suiciders at bay. Why not just get it and use first two days bonus for free GDI. Ofc guys can still double tap you but it gives you the upper hand if you decide to strike back.

beerdrinker, when I first came back I didn't understand the changes to GDI. Used to be the best way to play was to stay out of GDI until you were big and fat and out of reach and then join. One early set, I did a simple spy op and then couldn't join GDI. Once I learned to save my bonuses up and join GDI before attacking all was good. Returning players sometimes have a perception of the way to play the game that doesn't ring true anymore and there can be a bit of a learning curve.

I am not trying to critcize and i hope that letjeros decides to stay. But most guys know i like to try for top tens every set. I am also a really lazy player lol. Joining GDI is the easiest path towards the top. It isn't 100% a given but a decent strat and GDI will go a long way.

I also did get fluffed a couple of times before I learned and remembered to join GDI when I returned in february. :) to me it was the reason I quit and I had no expectations of ever finishing a set unsuicided when I returned. Since then I have finished several sets without being suicided which just did not happen to a good player back in the day, except in 2a. So Not only is the multi situation much better but also the GDI in express and primary makes those servers playworthy for netting.

the game formulas are as a whole worse now(the NW modifyers on LGs and special attacks especially fluffing fluff right now), but there are so many other things that have gotten better like the mods are actually able to remove some of the cheaters and the market options like orders, recall, history, EEStats and Earthgraphs, bots etc etc

If you do not join GDI for strategic purposes then you have to stay in the high twenties or you will eat a ton of missiles.

Like Beerdrinker and others have said, if you want to be thoughtless and lazy just join GDI, no tanks, no troops, no spies, just a simple monopoly game gone digital.

Yep...just how i like it :) work smarter not harder

Yes, I could have joined GDI. I'm not unused to having my country suicided because I almost never join GDI. I am not newly returned either; I have been here regularly (tho on and off) since the late 1990s, and I've observed the game play changes over time.

The issue isn't that it happens, which is a risk of play, it's the FREQUENCY with which it happens. People are here commenting that this is an ongoing issue. Why are people advocating for a clearly broken system? And why should I continue playing a game that I can't play effectively without using a game tactic I don't like? gdi limits my gameplay options, costs me in game resources, and makes my game experience less fun. Having my country destroyed for no reason after hours and hours of play also makes it less fun. In the time that 5 of my express countries have been (nearly, because frankly I'm a much better player than anyone who's tried to drown me in missiles) destroyed I have 16 sitting in free for all that have avoided even rolling untargetted killing.

So.... what am I left with?

I agree that the mods seem more active than in the mid 2000s by the way, and I agree that there have been positive changes. This is the opposite of a positive change, and I feel like it should be addressed with limitations on missile strikes or why not make everyone gdi if gdi is de facto required for play anyway?

Oh, and also:
Message from Earth Empires Staff sent on Nov 12, 19:03
The country you reported was not deleted by mods

Sinistril,
Excellent points. In addition, for some people, DM being the classic example, cheating is the fun. Not just this game, but many on-line games experience people who enjoy cheating more than playing.

Just as there are people like Gerdler and others for whom name calling and random unsubstantiated insults are a vital part of their game experience, so too there are people who play to cheat. This is especially true for people who opt out of GDI so that the game itself becomes an extremely simple repetition of teching and selling, reset after reset. The thrill can not be in the mindless game but in the forum insults. Gerdler is striving but failing to be the Dark Morbid of insults.

Players killing countries ("good" reason or not) does not necessarily mean they cheated.

I watch Express closely due to the nature and speed of the server.

If you are going to complain about something publicly, at least be clear that you are complaining because you're unhappy your country was maimed/killed and not due to unchecked ingame cheating.

People don't opt out of gdi they opt in. That's alot of insults accusing someone of insults.

Prim: I maintain it's cheating based on the messages that indicate previous interactions. I would also argue that playing in bad faith; eg playing to ruin the experience of other players, is tantamount to cheating whether they're playing multis or not. I maintain that they are, though.

Also my country is going to finish top 20 despite being "maimed" so uh. I'm still in top 10 right now.

I looked into it personally. I saw no cheating.

If it's not against the rules of the game, then it's not cheating. There is little room for additional interpretation here.



Congrats, then... But I believe this detracts from your intended point.

I'm sorry you're unhappy. Good luck next time, though.

You are left with playing the game and voiceing your concerns to the mods and the admins. The mods, admins and players are split between what this gams should be. I, like you, dislike griefing and think its a bad part of the game that other way way more successful games are working very hard to get rid of.
Take League of Legends for instance, probably the most successful computer game of all times overall. They have a tribunal system where players look through logs of a game and help game admins decide on temporary bans of players who are either abusive in the chat or are playing to destroy for others(griefing) rather than to try and win the game.
It is rather effective. Even though players are very varied and have bad days all the time just like in EE you dont have griefers every match. People often report others out of spite because they are angry they lost and those reports are filtered through the player-driven tribunal system. Also if you get reported by enough individual players in a short time span you get a temporary ban even though it has not gone through the admins or the tribunal to allow you time to cool off. A temporary ban can last 40 minutes or 6 hours or some days depending on how often you get them.

I think its completely idiotic that one can ruin 40 days of hard work in 5 minutes a day. It should be outlawed to do that for fun or whatever. And not only that but the game formulas, specifically the NW modifyers for landgrab returns, seem to work nowadays to make suiciding easier becauese it kinda forces netters to run low defence countries over part of the reset, making them vulnerable.
Thats something the admins could fix. Without changing ABs or BRs they can make it so netters can afford to defend against them, without losing half of their landgrab returns in the process. Because right now landgrabbing returns are more about matching NW than it is about DR, land on target or your Mstrat.

Prim: How does it detract from my main point, which is that this behavior has ruined the game for me and I will not be back for another round of play due to this? And what does looking into it personally mean, exactly? As was discussed above it's rather hard to stop cheaters, an no amount of IP logging or comparing News reports will make it less so. You think someone makes a country just to target one player per game, and destroys his country afterward, and has no other countries in server? That's their game to you, and this is a reasonable supposition?

The idea that ruining the game for people who play it in earnest is not cheating is not something I'm going to agree with even without proof of multis. If your little brother flips over the monopoly board because you're winning, he's a cheat whether he stole money from the bank or not.

Gerdler: I agree with everything in your last comment totally.

This is false.




This is not that uncommon and it never has been.



Your agreement is not a requisite.

Good luck to you.

That was a self delete. And it wasn't cheating what he did. Also, as many have said, join GDI.

The only reason one doesn't join GDI is either (i) they are noob to the server, (ii) want to take a risk at a slightly higher networth by lowering costs without GDI membership or (iii) they plan to war. Joining GDI is not a disadvantage when every other netter joins it. It's an even playing field among all GDI players and acts as a signal that says "I'm netting". Without GDI it means "I'm a risk taker" or "I like to war". Sounds to me like you're the former. You took a risk and you lost this round.

I think GDI works quite nicely in general precisely for the reasons cronie mentions.

Joining GDI means you are harder to target for griefing as you can only do landgrabs on them. That may be enough to ruin their reset but and get them into a war with you but you will give them the advantage and you will have a shorter time to do it.

Gamewise its a quick fix for reducing an unwanted behaviour, and if you try to net normally without GDI, because all other netters are in GDI, you will be more of a target than before. however the griefers have adapted their tactics or changed server which means you may actually get away with running some light tanks and troops even without SDI every now and again.

Basically you want a game where suiciders don't choose the winners each round, and express is that precisely because of GDI. Express most often is "who's the best techer" though which is unfortunate, but there have been quite a few indy wins this year too.

Quiet a few means 3 this year I think. Otherwise all techers. That's broken.

10 that I know of, though some of those theos, reps, demos and tyrs with high acres might have been cashers or farmers.

Even just ashe has won 5 times this year with C/I. I won once with C/I(only try) and once with farmer. Ebert won 2 sets ago with C/I.

So about every fourth reset. Techer is still overpowered and broken but there is no need to exaggerate.

9 the last 12 months. So higher than my guess but less than one in five.

It'd be interesting to see what the ratio of t10 finishes is. I reckon it's close to 60% Theos

So well out. But the actual figure is still 38%. 60 is probably close to the mark for techers if you count demos.

i think that techer or commy indy can win a set depending on who is running it. it is not as much the strat as it is the player. it is typically gerdler, ashe, Elliot or myself getting the win....whoever got suicided on the least. yes there are others that win, sorry if i left you out, I know there are many other good netters who win, but those 4 came to mind first. anyway my point is, elliot could run techer, i could run indy, who would win? gerdler of course lol.

ebert you could run a theo farmer selling on your private and still win.

Sounds about right. I always finish right behind that list.

To not be trolled without GDI will require high SPAL and high SDI as well, on top of high turrets, tanks and troops. That's quite a tall order. There are many ways for trolls to break people, particularly early to mid game.

And when you do have high SPAL and high SDI, or even lots of expensive to maintain tanks and high SPAL, these "protective measures" to preempt being trolled are actually counter to getting high networth, because you'd rather have spent that money on useful stuff like military/residential/business/agricultural/industrial research instead. Or instead of high SPAL and tanks, reduce the cost from owning turrets/jets when you're in GDI.

So I don't really see a real benefit to purposely not joining GDI and beefing up all defenses (other than as a finger to GDI netters by implying you're somehow better). Money is being wasted. There is no way of telling which way the troll will get you. You can't possibly beef up against all avenues. You will have a rainbow coverage and be jack of all trades and master of none. Then the troll with 1M tanks breaks you anyway. Or missle dump. Or all the ops they will do on you because their SPAL is super high.

Joining GDI simplifies things. Turrets & jets. Don't double tap. Done.

The only high ranking non-GDI players you see are normally people that 'fly under the radar' from the one or two full time trollers that sink early top players. So they do well because they lucked out from being selected. But if there were enough trolls handing out Darwin awards, then there should be no reason any non-GDI make top 25. Not enough players for that though.

cronie ofc you are right. If you run a high profile country. non-GDI allows your to fly under the radar for longer than GDI-ers though as you can grab later. That also means better grabs. it doesnt work as techer though any strat that requires 30k+ acres to succeed can do well with late grabbing.
If you have to get any form of significant SDI your set is over. same if you eat a few nukes. also anything more than 100k tanks and troops in the grabbing phase will ruin your grabbing. so you need a low profile.

Basically not running GDI in some situation can be played right and if you are more than a bit lucky you can do slightly better in some circumstances. High risk, low reward. :)

The pros far outweigh the cons...

If you want to net successfully on a very consistent basis, you need to join GDI. If you use your first bonus turns on free GDI, it's free.