I don't understand why intertag hits haven't been coded out yet. A tag admin exists now so that if someone is going ape fluff on other tags there are lots of people who can log in to their countries and detag the offender manually on their end.

It makes absolutely no sense for people within the same alliance to be allowed to hit each other. This should be inclusive for all attack types.

With intertag hits available people are allowed to circumvent the nature behind landgrabbing by either just creating ghost land for themselves in a 0 risk fashion or GSing themselves into DR. DR was a mechanic designed to stop people from hitting others too often... not to protect people who grab like idiots with no defense.




When you look at the rules that have existed in the game for a long time you need to evaluate why those rules were put into place to begin with. DR was originally designed to protect people from getting farmed, not to protect people who grab with no defense. Ghost acres was not designed to allow people to gain land without any risk. Intertag hits were allowed to put down suiciders. With the last being a non issue with the tag admin function now, I believe there is no reason to allow inter tag hits which should hopefully curb the former two from happening anymore in the game.



just the 2 cents of someone who's sick of people trying to subvert the nature of how the game should be played.

1) Being a know-it-all doesn't mean you know all
2) This belongs on B&S

Isn't this an alliance server?

Why shouldn't land trading not be allowed if it benefits the alliance as a whole?

This is a dupe on B&S anyway ;p

wait for it....

maybe take out landgrabs and leave in Special attacks to allow some of the special things small clans do to stay ;)

I believe there should be an astronomical surcharge for units put on the market and not sold. Those bushels should be my bushels :P

*Flame On*

at the very least what locket said - removing in tag hits completely negates a clan's ability to make the token gesture of killing a tag mate for suiciding on a clan.

I see no reason for this - whether you like it or not, it's a viable strategy, and clans/teams are there to encourage cooperation between players.

Thats why he mentioned that a tag admin can detag them. I was more referring to GSing to stop over farming

totally agree. it also makes absolutely no sense. in real life, fellow members of NATO do not attack each other.

I bet they would if they had ghost acres!

thats a fluffing stupid argument

I'm not sure if this is intended to be funny; but it is.

LaF has told me both that they will never allow intratag landtrading because its too risky and will make too many people suicide/war us, and because its not as risky as bottomfeeding, despite our lack of evidence that bottomfeeding is risky.

By the way, Eug, I think you mean intratag hits, not intertag hits. Banning intertag hits would be a hilarious change to the alliance server, and would definitely ruin the game.

The bullfluff moderator attacks!

the problem is, the second you code this in, someone will make two tags for the sole purpose of intra-farming :P

When ghost acres were changed, i vaguely remember the announcement made specific reference to increasing cs loss so as to try and make intra land tradding not worth it. The admins failed to do so, which leaves a couple of viable scenario's, either code it out, remove ghost acres, or come up with some other viable alternative.

How many landtrading countries have finished in the top ten?

Has this been an issue recently?

My suspicion is that it hasn't been coded out because it's not done enough to be worth the time.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Or you can stop being a vagina. Or is that in the last category you gave?

have an issue - war it -

political problem, not game mechanics

Two allies could theoretically do this as well, would it be right then? I still say it's better to insert bot countries for farmland/grabbing and let clans fight over them instead of abusing the ghostacres internally or in a cooperation between tags.

"DR was originally designed to protect people from getting farmed, not to protect people who grab with no defense."

Oh poor LaF loser. Your landfarms who you got illegitimately through gangbanging are in DR? Suck me off.

Dr doesn't stop farming. Period.

i love the enthusiasm dagga

B+

agreed

+9

deciding that no intag farming possible won't refuse anything. It can be done just as well between 2 clans. Ghost acres need to be fixed in some way to prevent the issue.

yes lets modify ghost acres so people are even less willing to landgrab each other because of the tactics of a handful of people.

ghost acres were already modified to prevent the over abuse of land trading.

some one mentioned alliances?

make it a land ally or something. you pay extra fees to be able hit thim, must be allied with them as per usual time frame etc, limited to how many countries can be trading with each other at the same time.


although, you put in something like this, you mess up fluff hits clanmates, which is always enjoyable for everyone. what would an FS be withought someone mis-hitting a friend?!

this. how is friendly landtrading between tags ethically different from intratag trading?

allies can't hit eachother; we don't allow you to hit your allies because it's basically a free op + your troops may fight themselves :p

the problem is alliances do nothing about political problems like these because of inter-alliance politics which leads to the game sucking even more.

suiciders sometimes do their best to take care of this problem but there is a finite number of people who can be bothered to suicide

something I've been floating around that may help solve the over-farming and landtrading problems is a layered DR system...

countries would have several types of DR, DR for all defending hits (like we have now), DR between countries (the ghost acres wear off more slowly), DR for your allies (if your allies hit someone, it makes them less attractive for you to grab), and for clan servers, DR between tags (untagged wouldn't count as a tag)

the country's current DR level would be determined by all of those factors

we could also make that same system work with war as well; if you hit at the same time as your allies, maybe you get less losses/higher returns or something.
I'd like to make offensive allies worth something in war outside of grabbing.

So Defensiver allies would be worth someting in war also?

stop relying on the admins to fix issues and take up the cause yourself.

I'd suggest a little give and take. Maybe some pro-active killing of any lafers or evo'ers that farm untags mercilessly and some alliances who land trade may see that as some give and take and do something about their members landtrading no?

just a thought.. ;-)

No one answered me, so I'm going to assume that exactly zero (0) landtrading countries have finished in the top ten. So here are the facts as I know them:

-an alliance has never landtraded to win average nw
-an alliance never landtraded to win total nw
-a warring alliance has never landtraded to get an advantage in war
-a country has never landtraded to get into the top ten

So what exactly is the issue here? Either the behavior some of you are worried about isn't possible or the server/players already self regulate it out of existence.

Also Dragonlance, if you're going to bring up the "OMG untagged farming" issue in every thread, I'm going to point out how much of it is due to people like you. I'm sure you don't want to have that conversation publicly, so kindly knock it off.

RD had a top 10 in their first set and others that benefited

edit: though that wasnt trading, that was blatant self-farming

Dragonlance strikes again. Are you the new dagga?

B&S...

there have been landtrading countries that finished in the t10 slagpit...

Who?

it was an inactive country that wasnt being actively played. it wasnt "self-farming". both countries would need to be run by the same player for that to be.

the only difference is it wasnt untagged so LaF and EVO could farm it also.

my bad, it wasn't landtrading

it was intratag farming, i thought it was landtrading but i looked at eestats and realized the country i was thinking of only hit his own alliance, and didn't get hit back.

to be fair, no country has landtraded into the top ten because those who do it are utterly incompetent at netting and the good netters currently do not believe in it. i'm pretty sure any of the top 30-40 netters in EE could landtrade into the top ten easily if they chose to.

I'd consider that to be self regulation.

Slag - I'm not sure it's quite logical to conclude that since something hasn't happened yet that it's not feasible or likely to happen. As HR said, I'm sure if someone set their mind to figuring out a way to do it right, it would be quite achievable - Personally, I don't think you'd have to be overly skilled to figure out how to do it.

The real question at hand here seems to be whether or not it's a good idea to leave the ability in place with the good faith that it won't be abused because of lack of community support, and whether or not the practice of using the ability that is there is acceptable in the community.

I think exclusively eliminating things like this from the game all together are going to carry just as many negative consequences as they will positive benefits. I'm much more in favor of limiting the ability.

not that i want people to do it. But it would be easy! Hanlong got 2nd or 3rd last set after being made into a parking lot and 2 strat changes. Being made a complete parking lot has to be worse then what happens with a land trade.

if inter-clan-farming was removed.. what would you lot have to argue about?

2 allies could easily set up a good system where they landtrade to get the ghost acres. then you can without much effort put in a few GS's to activate DR as well.

Just put in bot controlled countries for farmland and nobody will chose to grab eachother to get the ghost acres. The best grabbers will still do better even if it's bot countries being grabbed, and you will still have topfeeders and bigger clans grabbing smaller ones.

the rd t10 example isn't a valid reason to code out the intra tag farming. Although extremely lame in the eyes of any traditional netter, it's not circumventing the intention of game mechanics that were put into place in the past.

abuse of DR and ghost acres by land trading within tag is circumvention of the intention of game mechanics.

i dont see why people mention its a political issue. the rd t10 example would be something political. what i've been describing is something to do with game mechanics.

DR was intended to curb farming. the fact that we have so few people in the game has made DR not an effective deterrent anymore. that doesn't change the fact it is still designed to be a deterrent. if there were 10,000 countries on the server then i'm positive that there wouldn't be such farming problems.

if someone makes a 2nd tag with the intention of landtrading or creating DR then people can create political issues over that.

lastly, on the "nobody's made t10 yet"... are you saying that the issue is non existant because nobody half decent has done it yet? if it ain't broke don't fix it? the fact that laf/evo/omega don't do it is the only reason nobody has made t10 with it yet. maybe I'm expecting too much as a mere player, but i'm hoping all the game devs have an attitude of proactively changing things rather than reactively doing things after someone blows its abuse out of the water.





i do apologize for not posting this on b/s. i rarely make posts and i just needed the bonus but figured I would put out something interesting for a change.