Stay classy, SoF.

Sof is full of rednecks ... nothing new there.

I'm available..

@justtaint - It was largely a LaF sentiment that called for Arsenal to step down. Sov did make some strong statements regarding Pride's Presidency but hasn't said anything since I've been President.

Ahhhh, the old silent treatment then? ;)

(j/k for the oblivious)

Is this a fluffing joke?

No, it isn't a joke. It's time to start a dialogue. A continuation of gangbang politics that in recent terms began as a sof initiative is bad for the game. Everyone recognizes this. You are in a position to force change. I am just asking you to begin forcing that change in a new way. Attrition is not a tactic that benefits the game.

After spending numerous sets being subject to the attrition tactic, we're acutely aware that it doesn't benefit the game. aponic, I don't doubt that you've got good intentions here, but we're also mindful that SoF hasn't hesitated to use that tactic to an extreme. You mentioned earlier that MD/SoL/LCN have nothing to lose, but I disagree. Why wouldn't SoF do the exact same thing to us again if given the opportunity?

SoF tried to rebuild SoL recently so your contention that SoF is using 'attrition tactics' is false.

Several of the people posting on this thread are former MD leaders who have conversed with Sov over the course of the past 18 months. We all have facts/logs/etc that were given under the pretense of privacy. None of them are douchey enough to throw them all over AT for the sake of winning a pissing match. Too bad.

God I love Scode sometimes.

My mind is blown

On a more serious note, i am a looong time SoFer and all the BS that was going on there a year or two was enough to get me to switch sides. Ive known aponic for quite some time and he had nothing to do with any of the BS that happened in SoF. Hes a true SoFtie and I really hope you leader types can work this grudge crap out so we can try having some fun again. This server is in a downward spiral tthat aponic is trying to fix, not sure if its possible but theirs no chance it will if both sides cant work things out

I think the issue is a lack of trust. SoF pushed the line on these attrition wars and did that purposely. There was no form of conversation. Despite the fact that we've managed to keep SOL up in decent numbers I've seen numerous of our allies fall largely in numbers due to that issue.

I can only understand the fact that they fear letting SoF regain position will lead to the same damage.

I for one along with tav have been preaching what aponic is now saying out loud for quite some time. So forgive us if we seem a little cautious and on our tippy toes when SoF after taking 1 or 2 losses suddenly starts preaching massive changes in play style and attitude for all of us because it's better for us all.

It is going to be a slow road but it is nice to see everyone, and I mean everyone, trying to move towards a better game experience. Thanks for the nice words Chaz.

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."

George Bernard Shaw

fluff your hilarious...

I guess that says a lot about your ally mdevol?

On the point of logs, you can argue those should remain secret....but that doesn't answer for everything else (and sometimes Sov does ask for logs....but they magically never appear). However, I have seen more than enough arguments between Sov and his 'fan club' to know how their arguments will end.

Anti-Sov: "SoF and/or Sov are liars because ______"

Sov: *posts long message detailing his and SoF's position and ask for any factual logs, links, etc. to be produced*

Anti-Sov: "Well....Sov just lies to AT. Good thing his members believe it."

bonus

Thread thief!

The logs I produced proved your leaders were, in fact, telling a lie, as they were denying it publicly. Lying either to us, to get a pact, or to the rest of the server for some political reason. Either way, it was a lie.

Well, I can't speak for md, but as I mentioned earlier, I've been told that our pact was contingent in whether kj was in evo or not....

Not sure where Sol or even MD is to be trusted either. Both sides have that same issue and both sides started wars that probably never had to happen because of that.

@Tella they did you a favor man! :P

I am not dumb... I know how you probably feel. However, SoF seems like they want to make amends, should we all prevent them from this?
Are the anti-SoF prepared to risk the alliance server to stagnate over some hurt feelings?

On a side note, what is the risk involved in opening up talks between these enemies. In the worst case scenario; SoF backstabs SoLMD, SoLMD will get the rest of the server with them and could easily destroy SoF for the forseeable future.

We have already been through this mdevol. There is no inconsistency.

HAHA, if you are talking about your claims sof was gonna fs laf last set, Xyle proved you 100% completely wrong regarding that, then suddenly you stopped posting in the thread, Sof was already pacted to Laf before aponic even started to talk to sol...

And anyway who are you to call people out on lieing. You make agreements and give your word as an alliance leader, making unbreakable agreements and then you go and break that unbreakable agreement.

You can not call out people for lieing, not to mention your wrong, when you yourself are worse than a liar.

Whatever their plan was, if it was or wasnt to hit LaF, they told us that it was, in an attempt to get us to pact. It turns out that was a lie. OR Sov pacted LaF without telling Aponic.

Either way, Aponic either knowingly lied to us to get a pact, or Sov went behind his back and pacted without telling him. Now you are demanding we let that go, along with the past 2 years of fluffing us and our allies over repeatedly? Claiming that because he wasn't here, he cant speak to it, but knows it was somewhat wrong.

Knowing Aponic and Sov's track records, I would bet that Aponic didn't know that LaF was pacted, as he is a pretty standup guy. Sov on the other hand, this fits right in with his history...

No inconsistencies there. Just SoF being SoF, you are right.

Lol, this is the most hilarious thing I've seen in quiet some time. Are you seriously posting a plea on AT asking for this? You do realise you did exactly the same thing the other way around for over a year? Shoe on other foot huh?

Sorry posted the above reply before I read the thread and realised virtually every post was slating you on the same point I was making.

A couple of points in general:

- It was LaF (TC, Hanlong) who wants me out of MD leadership
- The whole LaF/SoF bloc wanted Pride out
- No external alliance influences MD leaders or Presidential choices. Unlike almost all other alliances Presidents are decided by an open vote of the Veterans and therefore unless you have influence over the MD vets core you have no way of influencing the leadership choices
- On that note, neither I nor Pride were ever pushed out of MD leadership
- I only left leadership after the first round of hacking was revealed (I was vindicated)

On SoF specifically:

- Ask Ivan and Helmet, I was very pro-SoF and anti LaF to begin with
- I often asked SoF to side with MD over LaF
- We maintained an FDP virtually throughout my entire presidency, except once they sided with LaF post cheating scandal. To Helmets credit our correspondence at that time remain private
- Flamey is a confirmed cheat (he was the SoF head with DIRECT knowledge that LaF's "sources" were from hacking boxcar)
- Sov is RD

Sov is less of an issue for me personally than Flamey, who imho cannot be trusted on the same level as TC or Hanlong.

Arsenal

That Flamey is still in SoF leadership is mind boggling =(

So all you have is that there was miscommunication between aponic and Sov? Yea...that's pretty damming....not.

Your original argument is supported by your mistaken perceptions of aponic's and SoF's intentions, and one of our country names. You are making too many assumptions about the inner workings of SoF. The answers you wanted were posted in the previous thread. However, just as iScode said, your disappearance was surprising....but expected. Go back there and address what was posted instead of dragging us through this conversation again.

ofc, the irony of what you are complaining about (signing secret pacts and general dishonesty) is exactly what you benefited from the past two sets. As a hint, refer to "my" country name last set.

You can have the last word.

I haven't looked at the logs but I don't think anyone lied. I approached Maki about a pact about a week or two before the log that came out happened. So two weeks later, I told Maki that we would have considered hitting LAF had we not been open to getting hit by half the server (which basically happened as we were stomped).

Xyle had no intention of doing anything to damage SOF's relationship with LAF, however, I was a little butthurt about getting stomped for a whole reset prior and felt a little left out to dry by LAF. As the FA I voiced my feelings to Maki after we had signed with LAF saying something along the lines of, "you know we would have talked about hitting LAF if you had at least tried to talk with me". Meaning I would have brought it up as a talking point on the heads board.

I didn't think it mattered at that point to share my feelings. Of course, it came back to bite me in the ass as Maki passed the logs on to the entire server. I don't really regret having considered hitting my ally. I felt wronged based on the limited knowledge I had returning that set. I don't even regret telling Maki. I'm playing the game the right way and making decisions for the right reasons.

You could talk to LAF regarding how they feel about what I just said but I told Eugene the same a few weeks ago when I had time to catch up with him. I think he was understanding of my frustration and also saw that the logs took place after we had renewed. Hell, it wasn't a secret that there was some frustration between SOF and LAF over the disintegration of the SOF/LAF,Rival,RD block.

I would like to reiterate that most of the talk on AT is regular stuff spun out of control. No one lied in or about the logs that were passed around.

Now just to backtrack, I don't want to come off like mdevol is intentionally spinning things here. I don't think that is his intention at all. I just think that the standard here on AT has become 'he said she said'. There is a general distrustful attitude circulating amongst the remaining leadership of the game and it's really tragic.

/rant

Arsenal: I like your straight forward points. I would welcome hearing more about SOF leadership if you had the time and wanted to send me a PM. You could also reach me by email -- but I would prefer to provide that to you via PM instead of putting it all over AT.

Can confirm. Mdevol is a douche. He randomly announces himself alpha male and then attacks without declaring war. Leaving his team mates to fight me solo is also a pretty heartless move.

You were the only player on my team in that game and we won.

Aponic, speaking as someone who's seen the logs and talked with you several times, I think you might need to be more careful with how you present things. Every person who saw those logs interpreted what you said as 'Sof was going to hit Laf, but Sol wouldn't sign, so we had to sign a pact'. That may not be what you meant to say, but that's what it sounded like. And just like the debacle with neo and candy last set, when it's the HFA saying such things, most people accept it as legitimate. I'm sure you can easily see how MD/Sol, and everyone else for that matter, interpreted your words as Sof's official stance.

Not to mention Sof's approach at the start of last set was that you were taking over the FA reigns and Sov was stepping back and not as involved anymore. So that makes you the most senior person as far as signing pacts last set.

But you're right, there is a lot of he-said, she-said, and various interpretations floating around. If over half the leadership of this server came to the same conclusion about something, and you didn't mean it that way, you need to re-evaluate your approach :/

couldnt agree more

There are multiple other instances where you abandoned your team mates to get wrecked by me.

haha, they mostly get wrecked by Randy and I don't abandon them, I just get wrecked by you right out of the gates, because I follow the policy of attacking the first person I see and see you first.

Lol. One day you are talking with each-other and the next day you just throw logs on AT or in other places. And i`ve seen both sides doing it so no wonder no one trust no one ...

aponic- you give those guys, especially mdevol, too much credit. Instead of responding to your post, after you laid out the facts and curtailed the spin, he moves on instead of publicly reflecting on your 'revelations'. ofc he doesn't save his words when he thinks he 'got' SoF. That should tell you all you need to know.

Tav- lol

no one should really listen to mdevol, he is a self admitted liar.

Have you ever broken a promise in your life outside of this server Scode?

I was man enough to own up to my broken promise and admit that it was a mistake and learn from it. You didn't ever see me run from it or attempt to justify it. I am the only member of that tag that tagged up again and stuck to my word, fully expecting what was to come....you didnt make countires to deal with it because you dont even play that server, you just troll and hope that it sticks. The clan that scott is a head in pacted me, so at least he trusts my word, despite his trolling. What else do you have?

If you want to have your agenda heard perhaps you can rejoin leadership of SoF. Despite your trolling, your leadership is still publicly reaching out to us for a pact.

Aponic - I'm not an MD leader anymore and haven't been for some years. I can speak accurately about historical events I was involved in, but I don't know too much about all this current stuff, e.g. the he said she said that tella is talking about.

I think there is certainly truth to your point but I want to say straight out that those logs were only little snippits of a discussion that took place over two weeks (mainly two weeks prior and then on that evening). It's not really worth going into further though -- dwelling on it isn't going to help me.

Was it taken out of context?

Nice post, but bad choice of word at the end.

I dont understand your response, all you had to say is 'yes, iScode is right, I am a self admitted liar.'

None of that other nonsense...

You forgot the other part:

"I don't have a response to aponic's facts. Darn it...why did he have to go and break my spin machine?!"


--------

bertz: he's already explained the logs.

Aponic, there were several cases when that impression was given. I'm not referencing a specific log, but multiple, including a conversation you and I had. So yes, over the course of several conversations with different people over the span of a few weeks, you unintentionally managed to convince over half the leaders of the server that sof had planned to hit laf. That may not have been what you and/or sof wanted, but that's what happened.