Break Calc's broken? Bot defensive points advantage?

mrcuban

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1103

Apr 25th 2018, 22:37:15

I'm not sure what I am doing but even taking into account the bots having allies I am sending 50% offensive above the break and still failing? What the hell is going on?? Sad Face..

Deci

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Apr 25th 2018, 22:38:58

Are you sure you're doing the break as SS and not PS?

Or you can do the easy thing and spy their allies. :p

Retired.... and back again.

mrcuban

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1103

Apr 25th 2018, 22:52:35

I've failed on both SS and PS. with regards to spy def I thought it was maximum of 25% of the primary country military. So if defender has 1m turrets, the maximum def they can receive from their ally is up to 250k turrets?

Is this true? Or can defender have 100 turrents and still receive up to % of ally military ?

mrcuban

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Apr 25th 2018, 22:52:42

duplicate

Warster

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Apr 25th 2018, 22:57:40

25% of each allies defense, up to a Max of 100% of the targets own defense I believe

So if he has 1mil turrets and he allies have 1mil each

He gets 500k extra

If they had 2mil he would get 1mil extra

If they had 4mil he would still only get 1 mil

I think anyway

Edited By: Warster on Apr 25th 2018, 23:00:57
See Original Post

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mrcuban

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Apr 26th 2018, 0:40:50

Yeah and then you add in weapons tech.. Are the bots buying tech?

Requiem

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Apr 26th 2018, 1:06:56

Bots OP

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Gerdler

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Apr 26th 2018, 1:34:24

It works the same way as allies always worked.

also you still have the pang-factor of I suppose 9.9%. so I always oversend by 10% if I got proper ops.

that means if you know the bot has allies, and you dont know how much they give you, you may need to send 220% his raw break. so if he has 100k turrets and non-dict, non-rep with no weaps you may fail at 215k jets on SS with no weaps, govt bonus, off allies at 100% readiness. but not at 220k jets.

table4two

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Apr 26th 2018, 8:02:29

Gerdler is so smart..

mrcuban

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Apr 26th 2018, 12:52:40

BOT country was commie with 700k turrets / 200k troops and 30k tanks.

I sent 1m jets, 400k troops and 50k tanks as Fascist and as and SS and failed....

sinistril

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:03:09

Originally posted by mrcuban:

BOT country was commie with 700k turrets / 200k troops and 30k tanks.

I sent 1m jets, 400k troops and 50k tanks as Fascist and as and SS and failed....

So.. you sent nowhere near enough. I don't see the problem.

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

mrcuban

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:06:29

The turrets were 500k not 700k. It was a double send. Still not enough?

Marshal

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:08:09

allies and weapontech since w/o those you sent ~500k oversend.

with allies and those having same military you only had 10k oversend.

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Relax lah

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:08:45

Originally posted by mrcuban:

BOT country was commie with 700k turrets / 200k troops and 30k tanks.

I sent 1m jets, 400k troops and 50k tanks as Fascist and as and SS and failed....

So depending on the level of def this bot has, u may need breaking power as high as 1.72m jets SS (without accounting mehulled/pang factor).

If u want to avoid fails at all costs, then op the allies.
Basically is your bot target break + (25% of all def allies defense, up to 100% of your target’s)

Marshal

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:10:32

yea stop being lazy and do ally ops too or be lazy and send massive oversend.

Warster

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Apr 26th 2018, 13:51:53

I'm sending 90% over the bots breaks only fail 5-6 times lol

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Ruthie

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Apr 26th 2018, 16:44:12

same

*sigh*

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martian

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Apr 26th 2018, 17:36:05

MEHULED!

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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

Marshal

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Apr 26th 2018, 19:13:32

PANGQZED

Primeval

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Apr 26th 2018, 21:40:15

I find it interesting in similar threads/posts that the first assumption people have is a game issue rather than a player calculation issue. Just thinking aloud

DerrickICN

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Apr 26th 2018, 22:24:29

At 500k turret, 30k tank, 200k troop raw break = 660k jets

Max possible allies double break to 1.32m jets

You sent 1.30m total power. Its likely break is doubled by allies and you didn't even get panged. You were just a hair short.

To be safe on a similar target you can go the relax route but I've been pretty solid on 10% oversends. 1,455,000 jets would have more than likely done the trick but even 1,350,000 would break a good percentage of the time. You were close but just a hair short.

For the record, sending 25% extra like relax said not only avoids pang fails but also increases ghost acres so its actually smart to take this break to 1.72m

major

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Apr 26th 2018, 22:25:47

good god, Cuban.... even now you still can bring a laugh to me... lets you and i land-trade.

DerrickICN

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Apr 26th 2018, 22:26:39

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2018, 22:28:54

Two words can answer all the questions and concerns in this thread...

Human error.

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
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https://youtu.be/...pxFw4?si=mCDXT3t1vmFgn0qn

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sinistril

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Apr 27th 2018, 6:01:30

Well, people blame the game because the game is, admittedly, buggy. That said, this one was strange.

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

mrcuban

Member
1103

Apr 27th 2018, 6:16:15

I never blamed the game i was just asking what i was doing wrong. I was clearly calculating it incorrectly. Let's keep our knickers on please GG

mrford

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21,389

Apr 29th 2018, 1:28:16

Look at ally expenses. If not GDI and the expenses are not 0 you need to ally op. Or at least NW calc ally capabilities.

The game does not randomly decide to screw a massive oversend. You just didn't math.

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chapman951

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Apr 29th 2018, 5:30:56

I’m a republic with 122% weapons tech and use boxcar to calculate my break.
I oversend 100k - 200k Jets with countries that have a 2 million SS break with 2 allies.

So far I have failed 1 attack out of 109.

Hope that helps :-)

qzjul

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Apr 30th 2018, 5:35:24

Originally posted by sinistril:

Well, people blame the game because the game is, admittedly, buggy. That said, this one was strange.

What bugs! I see no bugs! =D

A couple display issues perhaps... ;)

Finally did the signature thing.

martian

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Apr 30th 2018, 19:11:29

features.. they are called features:)

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

mrcuban

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1103

Apr 30th 2018, 23:02:27

Okay this one i don't understand.

His def. 770k turrets, 330k troops and 66k tanks.

I calculate that at

Turrets = 1 def point
Troops = .6 def points
Tanks = 3 def points.

His break points = 770k + 198k + 252k = 1.2m ish.

I sent:

Jets = 1 off point
Troops = .6 off point
Tanks = 3 off points

I sent

2m jets
100k tanks

Equals 2.6m off points and failed and as.

And weapons tech to 115%

I was enraged and didn't check his def allies. But I'm assuming he had them...

Surely the def ally is cacluated to a % of the primary country defense. As in I can't be 0 def but my 2 allies have 10m turrets each so technically I have 5m turrets ?

Should I Read the wiki ? I suck

sinistril

Member
2184

Apr 30th 2018, 23:06:04

troops .5 pt
jets 1 pt
tanks 2 pt

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Gerdler

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May 1st 2018, 1:41:49

Originally posted by mrcuban:

I calculate that at

Turrets = 1 def point
Troops = .6 def points
Tanks = 3 def points.

Didn't you post with these def point numbers all wrong a couple of sets ago too?

Sinistril already posted the right values, and thats the basis of your calculation, you then gotta know how to add allies govt, weaps and bonus modifiers and then also the pang factor. But the basis is that a turret defends as two troops and a tank defends as two turrets, you can then graduate to the other more complicated things.

KoHeartsGPA

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May 1st 2018, 3:15:53

Like is said, human error!

mrford

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May 1st 2018, 3:18:20

That is a pretty epic miscalculation.

It is a wonder you ever actually had a sucessful grab.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Requiem

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May 1st 2018, 17:32:54

I always like to convert to troop power then figure out how many jets I need.

Just my preferance.

1 troop = 1 TP
1 turret = 2 TP
1 tank = 4 TP

1 jet = 2 TP (offensive)

You need to know how to calc all the gov bonus allies tech etc etc but that will give u the raw TP as a base to start with. I haent looked but the wiki does also have some formulas:

http://wiki.earthempires.com/index.php/Game_Formulas

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Vic

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May 1st 2018, 19:44:12

nubs gon' nub

Gerdler

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May 1st 2018, 20:05:46

mrcuban what is this? Are you trolling?

https://www.earthempires.com/...n-break-calc-44339#835488

You made the exact same thread two sets ago where you used the wrong multipliers for troops turrets and tanks same as now... you were told what you did wrong, and you didn't change your calculations.
That was even before bots had allies.

Will I find more threads looking exactly the same if I look back further?

step up the first step of the ladder and learn the raw strength of turrets troops, jets and tanks. Theres so much more in this game.

Marshal

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May 1st 2018, 20:48:43

gerdler: i think so.

Gerdler

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May 1st 2018, 21:50:46

Careful statistical analysis has revealed a strongly positive correlation between degree of failing at math and degree of failing to see the greatness of Stephen Hawking. r=0.97

Maybe you can see his greatness when you get up the first step of the ladder.

Havoc

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May 2nd 2018, 1:21:08

good thread

Havoc
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KoHeartsGPA

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May 2nd 2018, 7:18:36

For lulz, ya, good thread...

mrcuban

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May 2nd 2018, 21:25:41

Sorry guys, not trolling. Excuse my ignorance. I forgot about my previous post, was about to stop playing ee last set. Decided to give it another set, bounced far too many grabs and was using incorrect info (again).

I’ve used the calc info from the wiki and there is some grabs that were a clear oversend and stilll bounced...

It was more frustrating than anything else. I’m still top10 in land, but I should be 10k plus acres ahead.

Gerdler

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May 3rd 2018, 0:44:40

http://wiki.earthempires.com/index.php/Military_Units

Gerdler

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May 3rd 2018, 1:32:51

And yet the numbers are still right. For some reason people use .6 for troops and 3 for tanks or whatever, still. They need this page. :)

mrcuban

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May 3rd 2018, 2:34:16

@gerdler thanks for the link I have it now. There are still a few grabs that should have passed with a 125% oversend and still bounced. Anyways we can leave this thread now. cheers

Ivan

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May 3rd 2018, 3:36:28

some people never learn gerdler, its been the same numbers since the millenium

LittleItaly

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May 3rd 2018, 4:27:48

Originally posted by Official Forum Mod:

Originally posted by Gerdler:

http://wiki.earthempires.com/index.php/Military_Units

This page was last edited on 21 December 2012, at 09:23.

If info never changes, then the page never gets updated.. regardless if wiki login is broken right now :P

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chapman951

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May 3rd 2018, 10:56:16

If you were grabbing a bot (or non-bot), it may have taken turns and/or purchased a large amount of turrets right before you sent your attack. A few of the bots I typically grab have acquired 1-2 million extra turrets suddenly.

I will not spy-op some of the bots I routinely hit. However I failed an attack today because one of these bots bought a massive amount of turrets.

Gerdler

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May 3rd 2018, 11:22:17

Yep, as chapman says there are perfectly good reasons why attacks will sometimes fail. I failed 15 out of 722 landgrabs (97.92% success)last set and while a couple of those were just when the bots started allying up most of them were straight up math fails by me because I was rushing through it. I missed stuff like checking govt (failed on several dict's) or copied the wrong bots number. There were no mysterious fails tho, I can explain each of them with mistakes or bad guessing on my part.