you should relax detmer =)

you do realize that both PDM and LaF have increased in total acreage since this began.

ghost acres for all!

go drow =)

think of all the ghost acres we are generating for each other!

it's win win!

just don't send nukes, you have to understand its lose-lose since you are destroying good acres for no reason :(

Drow: you can obtain proof without any bounced ops by matching the nw changes.

if you stole 10 tech from me, and i lost 10 tech worth of nw and you gained that, and with multiple ops you repeatedly did that, you are that guy ;P

and i'm collecting the evidence right now, be patient young one ;)

and why would any one else do harmful spy ops in mass on LaF countries.. gee whiz.. but of course there would be concrete proof, it just takes some time so relax =)

oh Gearhead, just like how you told me to lay off that thread, instead of bugging other alliances, how about you go back and do more retals instead ;)

i'm sorry... i'll go back and do my retals in peace then :(

fact:

PDM contacted me about those 2 hits.

fact:

i never said that was PDM not talking to us for those hits. i said you guys didn't talk to us about LaF's hits on PDM that you were clearly displeased about, and instead took your own actions.

myths:

none



i don't like spreading myths ;)

heh well i was busy talking to like 6 alliances at once during that time.

you guys were the most impatient ones, topfeeding LaF while the whole thing was going on.

i can grab the news but it was like less than 6 hours before your guys started to topfeed us. and less than 24 hours before we got nuked. i hardly call that "so long to get back to us"

you can't reasonably expect me to react that fast =) i think my response time to PDM was about the same to WoF/ICN/Sanct/etc. and they had the courtesy to wait for my response before deciding whether they should nuke us (and they didn't).

because like i said, we talked and worked out a nice deal for all ;)

yes, i gained a lot of respect for WoF this reset =) i know you guys will be successful in the alliance server from what i see so far.

lol ok then h4, PDM will continue to make you a parking lot then ;P

how much does it cost to park at one of your spots h4? ;)

lol makinso, you just want to see war =) not everyone is like SOL and wars over everything you know ;)

btw get ur ass online h4 ;)

sanct talked to me first.

you guys topfed our all-x first and sent nukes and spy ops?

you see the difference? ;P we had to retal first =)

no DL :P like i said, i can proudly state that any alliance this reset who talked to me has resolved everything in a peaceful and happy manner where we don't take the bully/take a crap on everyone route.

we even got witnesses ;)

also like i said many times, as a FA officer, i can't offer much help if you don't try to open the door for communications with me =)

no we aren't accepting them =) we are just testing out PDM's unconventional retal methods only on them.

we enforce our retal policies, but sometimes on a case-by-case basis we feel we can use the retal policies of the other alliance.

between nonpacted alliances, there is no standard for who's retal policies you get to use. imo it's up to the defender to use either their own or the other party's.

if you were in an alliance dragonlance that used funky retal methods, we can either choose to use YOUR OWN policy or we'd use our own. regardless with proper FA channels, i'm sure a happy agreeable medium would be worked out regarding who's to use. now if your FA doesn't contact me, well i'd probably choose the one of the two that best benefits myself ;)

oh i do agree some of the points were for comical effects =) you have to remember this is a game and i'm sure everyone enjoys some interjection of humor here and there, or at least some half-assed attempt for it ;)

like i said, i'm compiling all the harmful spy ops PDM has done to us this reset and all the nukes and "dec war", all you've claimed to be retals.

you are still missing out on the spy ops:

let's take some examples:
Feb 23, 2011 4:45 PM
9 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 2985 points of technology!

9 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 3028 points of technology!

9 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 3066 points of technology!

9 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 3075 points of technology!

9 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 3082 points of technology!

----


Feb 23, 2011 6:49 PM
11 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 1800 points of technology!

11 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 1805 points of technology!

11 hours ago
Spies infiltrated your research labs and stole 1810 points of technology!

---

those two are two different guys, as rockman have said, he recieved a bunch also at a different time that i haven't got from him yet.

and there's a bunch more cases (literally like 5-6 more, i haven't had the time to collect them all).

plus the 200+ GSes on #36 which i already told you is RoR since it was from harmful spy ops.

but trust me when i say i added up the hits and we're merely retal-ing every single one of them.

like i said the door is open for talks, but you have to trust me when i say that every single hit on us to you (except for the original 17 in 24 which you always claim) are retals ;)

but oyu see the problem with doing harmful spy ops as "retals"? i don't like the idea of nuke retals, but at least they are trackable on the news. harmful spy ops as retals + lack of communication from you guys = you guys thinking we are "grabbing" when we are retaling.

i think there is a reason why every other alliance does not use retal policies anywhere close to what you guys are trying to use

lol Scrub worked under me back in 2003 ;) he was merely pushing my agenda!

no, i merely stated if you notice LaF has a brand new FA team that you haven't dealt with, you should try to talk to them first?

if it was "insert old LaF FA here who wasn't nice to you (because honestly i don't know which one you weren't happy with)" at it again, you can probably use precedent.

i was a head or Don of LaF since 2000. i did take breaks from 2001-2002 and 2006-2010, and i apologize if you had any bad experiences with LaF during those times.

but regardless i dont recall ever having a problem with PDM during the other times i was active.. hell i remember we had a LDP with PDM for a period of time too... so you really have to remind me why i get to be "part of the precedent" when you deal with me.

you see the problem here?

all these actions were from what you wanted to do, without even bothering to talk to me?

i see your point, and it would've been nice if you communicated those points to me instead of acting all gungho on your own =)

that's my point. i am not justifying or nor did i ever justify that LaF doing 17 hits on PDM in 24 hours is right. you can look at all my posts i merely indicated that you guys topfed us twice first which was probably a reason why some of the members thought it was ok to grab you guys. grabbing is fine, and it wasn't coordinated but i do agree the amount was a bit excessive which is why i immediately set you to DNH and attempted to reach out to you guys.

i also do understand from the past history LaF would've told you they were right to hit you lots of times in a short period to overwhelm your retal policy, and it is unfortunate you took those past events into refusing to talk to me while every other alliance this reset actually did, but even then, you could've tried to talk to me first before deciding that I wouldn't work out a fair deal with you.

can you tell me why you didn't even bother opening FA discussions with me, stating your problems, and we can calculate how much land/hits needs to be exchanged so both sides are happy like every other alliance who i dealt with. if your reason was because i would have told you to fluff off because LaF/PDM history indicated that, you have to remember that the last time i played this game was 2006, so you cannot hold be representative of what LaF FA department would do from your recent memories of LaF

i never said the problem wasn't with LaF. i apologized for doubting your retal policy, and i also apologized for the actions of my members earlier this reset to you guys and all the other alliances which they tried to grab too much.

why do you think i worked out deals with other alliances? because they listened, they gave me their concerns. like wof was willing to retal like normal people, so everything went on like normal, sanct for instance (and they are happy to confirm this) didn't want to buy up to retal those guys with 7M turrets, so we let them hit another LaF member with low acres who was willing to give up their land in retribution.

you see what happens when you talk via FA channels? you get communication and both sides get heard and we can reach a common ground.

it is unfortunate that PDM doesn't believe in doing FA

confirmed.

we had some problems with members getting overzealous in grabbing this reset.

let's see all the candidates:

sanct worked out a fair deal with me. they got their acres back too.
wof didn't even mind those hits and retaled the proper way.
icn worked out a deal with me.
evo worked out a deal with me.

pdm's FA was nowhere to be found. despite that we put them on DNH and they started to topfeed us heavily, and do strange retals like harmful spy ops, nukes, and dec war.

i am led to believe the problem isn't with LaF, because every other alliance has FA that is capable to talk to me, but PDM. and since PDM practices unconventional retals, we are testing it out.

and from that test, i can see why you guys do it ;P therefore LaF apologizes to PDM for making fun of their unconventional retal policy. there was that saying that went "you can't knock it until you try it"

huh? what's going on?

Oh, I totally agree I left out some key facts such as how detmer did contact me about those two "accidental" grabs, just like you guys conveniently left out harmful spy ops as a reason why there were retals from LaF to PDM that you guys assumed to be RoRs and "grabs initiated from LaF".

Spin goes both ways. And other than the 17 grabs in 24 hrs that you guys always quote, I believe almost all other grabs by LaF on PDM were retals because I set you guys on DNH.

I already apologized for those 17 grabs to you guys, but you guys are clearly playing the aggressor by your actions, which I have stated many times I don't really care about either. I just don't like the "woe is me LaF is such a big bad bully" card when we all know that's not what's happening here.. like I said, I'm not into bullying the little guys, and rather help them out :) this game needs all the players it can get for the sake of the community.

But in order for that to succeed ther needs to be a level of mutual cooperation. If I set your alliance to DNH because you guys complained, I would expect better than

1) constant topfeeds
2) overretals with multiple nukes and/or harmful spy ops, erase the fact that LaF does not accept those as valid retals, even as per PDM policy I don't think dec war, sending 2 nukes and doing 7 harmful ops qualifies as an appropriate response for 2 landgrabs.
3) random killing of a LaF country trying to retal a PDM aggressor who probably violates one of 2 points above.


If I was ss I would've gone "meh heh" all over u guys already, but yet in the spirit of helping the lil guy out I have refrained from any drastic actions as a symbol of that "working towards better relations" that you guys have constantly quoted with ur talks with pang in the past.

But that requires you guys to actually bother to do FA talks with me.

locket to LaF is like dagga to SOL :P

like i said, you guys did two grabs first on us.

we didn't hit you guys first. the whole "it's just common goddamn sense to put us on DNH as we did with you." is just AT spinning ;)

what part of grabbing LaF first is "putting LaF on DNH" from the start of the reset? ;)

just look at the news, PDM was the first to SS/PS LaF countries, they were the first (and only) to send nukes, they were also the first to GS a country to death.

in no way was LaF the first in anything ;) to top it off, you guys were the first to complain about "LaF bullying PDM" but it looks like PDM trying to bully LaF ;) which in itself is pretty comical

unlike some of my predecessors i'm not in the boat of taking advantage of smaller alliances. but some of your actions are force spoonfeeding us into that situation, and yet your FA still doesn't want to talk and instead make random actions and then announcing their stupidity of their actions on AT like they are proud of it.

i'm quite speechless

i set PDM to DNH the minute this reset's things broke out.

except PDM kept on nuking and grabbing us.

i know i talked to detmer, he said we'll see later.. so this is "later" :P

and yes, you can ALWAYS send me an insite about any situation that more than a standard retal (like RoR, etc. etc.)

we can actually sort out why those "RoR" occurred, especially how you practice harmful spy ops and dec war as valid retals and those never show up in the news, you really need to have some sort of communication skills and not base your actions on what you see in the news ;)

you know i'm all for stealing tech as a "retal" but you can't do 6 of them for every hit.

according to your own policy, it was 1 special attack/spy op per grab as a valid retal (and if it was owed 3, you do 3)

doing it as a 6 to 1 ratio is overretaling by your own rules too ;)

and that explains a lot of the land difference in retals. if you choose to do a special spy op as a retal, you will probably end up with less land than if you did standard SS/PS retals ;) if you overretal with special spy ops, you will end up with even less acres. it's nothing against PDM or anything, this is just common sense...

just food for thought..

and i agree, PDM is awesome. otherwise LaF would've already FSed them ;)

but i find PDM's bravery very commendable. their policies being so out of touch with everyone else is quite hilarious to watch personally =)

there's just some minor differences between LaF and PDM policy

1) declare war to do retals. ok for pdm policy, not ok for LaF
2) harmful spy ops as retals. ok for pdm policy, not ok for LaF
3) nukes as retals. ok for pdm policy, not ok for LaF

you cannot "preempt the spin" without including everything. then you are just twisting the facts ;)

i don't think dec war and harmful spy ops get shown in the news, probably why you can't just look at the news alone to decide to order a kill run

yah i replied ;P maybe let me know when you are usually online so i can coordinate haha

i dont want to sit on ICQ all day =)

its obvious which country is highrock's =) if you can't see it then you are blind locket...

it's gonna snow for the first time in 35 years here in San Francisco tonight...

i don't know wtf you mean by "it is getting hot lately"

nothing wrong about SF!

70 is the new 21

good luck EDge!




anyone knows why we are all wishing him good luck? ;)

lol

i have nothing to say almost.. i think its almost getting comical, especially considering the original intent of this thread...

and just fyi to PDM, you guys are DNH in our embassy also :P

its up to you guys to push the buttons ;)

locket isn't representative of the official LaF stance :P

you know it's all love ;)