Really Tan? This came from you?
But hey. These are just things a police officer is trained to do. They're also apparently trained to interpret a big black guy rushing him as a "life or death situation" where you only use your firearm to "shoot to kill."

If that's what happened, black or white doesn't matter.
if someone is rushing me and I have a gun..they lose.
Not sorry about that, if you expect me to choose whos going to walk away from that situation, its not gonna be the other guy.

Vic, I've learned to pretty much ignore everything you say, so there's that.

mrford, fair enough.

biased witnesses and a biased medical examiner are the only people who have said he was on his knees surrendering when he was shot. And the medical examiner said he COULD have been, not that he was.

It is going to be difficult to prove what really happened without a doubt unless some evidence hasnt been presented yet and is being protected by the federal investigation.

I find it highly doubtful that the police officer would have executed someone with that many witnesses around. Especially one with such a good record.

I would just like to say this

This happend around where i live about a few weeks ago

I know its a completely different story then what happened here but this is why he shot him...

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/...-shooting-in-west-st-paul

[quote poster=VicRattlehead; 32845; 593611]Good to see that TAN is still dumb. Some things never change.

Shoot center mass. If the target doesn't go down shoot again.

Actually, when I shoot I practice firing twice rapidly, then sidestepping, then firing twice, etc., so waiting for him to go down wouldn't happen.

Nationwide, fists are already recognized as lethal force. By the accepted legal standard, he was in danger of his life and thus is justified in shooting the [kid]. [/quote]

That is so out of touch with reality it is almost offensive. Nobody deserves to die over a fist fight, and in the vast majority of circumstance neither party would expect a fight to end with a mortality. Considering yourself to be in "life threatening danger" over a fist fight is pretty far fetched, and clearly anyone shooting over such things places little value in human life.

A third of the population would probably be dead via gunshot wound if fistfights were the standard for killing.

Sure people die in fist fights but it is very uncommon. Most fist fights get broken up when it is clear one side is "done".

That's why I ignore Vic, especially when it comes to guns. So out of touch it's scary what he might do in RL.

this is a reasonable opinion. the robbery should not have any bearing on the situation if the cop did not know about it having taken place before the confrontation happened. however, if he DID know about it, it gives the officer some justifiction on whether he was fearing for his life (knowing he was dealing with a violent individual).

i very highly doubt any cop would shoot someone that is on their knees surrendering, in front of a neighborhood full of witnesses, multiple times. if that turns out to be the case then he deserves to be charged. but it still doesnt not make it a hate crime.

Because that never happens:

http://jonathanturley.org/...ictim-of-police-shooting/

http://newsone.com/...-el-paso-police-shooting/

http://en.wikipedia.org/...arles_de_Menezes#Shooting (London)

I'm not saying all cops do this. There are great cops out there. But if you think this:



Think again.

Brown(The 6'4 300 pound 18 year old Kid), robbed a store, and could have thought the cops were after him. It matters because it likely accounts for his actions in how he reacted to the cops.

The sound recording of a dude who saw it all and didn't know he was being recorded tells me all I need to know. It tells it to a Tee, what the police officer said.

Once you put your hands on the Police, you have now assaulted an officer. He has to be arrested at that point, once he started charging the officers, he became a deadly weapon.

Everything the officer did was justified at that point. Brown forced the officers hand to react at that moment when he started charging.

this. and my new favorite quote: play stupid games win stupid prizes

maybe, but just because it has happened before, doesnt make it the most likely explanation of the chain of events. that is judgmental and profiling, the same thing the rioters are accusing the cops of

It might not have happened. On the other hand, it might've. We'll have to wait and see how things develop.

But to say "it never happens" is wrong. It has happened before, could happen again. We'll see.

If MB was indeed charging him, which it is starting to sound like an actual event, someone that is almost twice the receiving end's weight would def consider that charge a lethal weapon.
I saw a pic online that shows his uncovered body. There is a trail of blood leading to his body, not a pool of blood, but a trail. It means he was either running towards or away from the officer on the final blow that brought him down.

[quote poster=H4xOr WaNgEr; 32845; 593621][quote poster=VicRattlehead; 32845; 593611]Good to see that TAN is still dumb. Some things never change.

Shoot center mass. If the target doesn't go down shoot again.

Actually, when I shoot I practice firing twice rapidly, then sidestepping, then firing twice, etc., so waiting for him to go down wouldn't happen.

Nationwide, fists are already recognized as lethal force. By the accepted legal standard, he was in danger of his life and thus is justified in shooting the [kid]. [/quote]

That is so out of touch with reality it is almost offensive. Nobody deserves to die over a fist fight, and in the vast majority of circumstance neither party would expect a fight to end with a mortality. Considering yourself to be in "life threatening danger" over a fist fight is pretty far fetched, and clearly anyone shooting over such things places little value in human life.

A third of the population would probably be dead via gunshot wound if fistfights were the standard for killing.

Sure people die in fist fights but it is very uncommon. Most fist fights get broken up when it is clear one side is "done". [/quote]

I didn't say I thought it should be that way, I said it is. Legal precedent matters, and the precedent is that for the purposes of self defense cases, fists are lethal weapons.

TAN, glad you remember me as a gun loony haha I am one of he he safest people with firearms you'll meet. Friend me on FB and I will show you pictures of many people shooting in safety at my folks farm.

FTR, I am usually not on the side of the cops. When the perp clearly initiated the confrontation, it is a different story.

Here you go, more fodder to call me crazy, I am passing firearm safety on to another generation. You're not invited when the zombies come. :P

http://www.fredericksburgparent.net/...one/1883-nice-shootin-tex

if a cop cant take down that guy without using deadly force then he is ether incompetent or poorly trained. Ether way he is useless and shouldnt be a cop, its easy to take someone down who is bigger than you if you are trained correctly.


Americans are just gun crazy because they have no discipline or skill in unarmed combat, basically your all just a bunch of pussies and I could smash you all in a one on one fight...

the only thing you would fight in a situation like this was the urge to run away. stfu nub

Obvious Troll is Obvious

Please unlike you pussies we tackle guys this size all the time in rugby and we dont use pads like you fluff americans.

Seriously, how could a POLICE OFFICER not be able to restrain this guy without deadly force, answer that question and I will agree that he deserved to be shot.

Was the victim trained in judo or jiu jitsu or something?

Vic, you might be very safe shooting, but if you carry and you're willing to shoot someone to avoid a fistfight, you're probably one of the most dangerous people on this forum.

Why must someone be forced to get into a fist fight? Sorry , but my rights say I can protect myself with a firearm. My rights say I can protect my family with a firearm. I value my life and my families lives much more than someone trying to do harm to us.

so you admit your a fluff?

I am not into Macho-BS

I'm not saying you don't have a right to defend yourself. I'm just saying you're a morally terrible person who is willing to irreversibly kill someone just to avoid a bloody nose. That's some weak fluff. Call me liberal all you want, but my fluffing hell, that is an ethically barren position to take.

I agree with bombay on that note

but you are siding with the rights of the aggressor. the aggressor is the person who doesnt care about the victim's rights, so why should the victim care about the aggressor's rights?

if you cant defend yourself or your family without the use of a Gun, then you dont deserve to live anyway...

that is why iScode doesnt have a family

Every situation is different. If someone I know takes a poke at me in the heat of an argument, we'll beat each other bloody and be friends the next day. Been there done that.

If I am out and about and a random comes at me, I cannot guess their intent. I cannot ascertain their level of skill. All I can do is judge what I see, and if what I see is 300 lbs of pissed off charging at me, game over.

lol spoken like a person who lives in a gunless country.

I have quite a large family actually, how can someone not have a family? Do they just magically appear out of no where? such an ignorant statement.

Pain, we have guns, we just use them for hunting, not killing people because we were scared.

So scode, you don't think women should have the right to defend themselves from violent rapists? If Wladimir Klitschko decides to force himself on every woman he meets they should just have to take it?

I'm not siding with anyone's "right." You have a "right" to defend yourself. I've already said that. What I am saying is that shooting someone who is trying to fight you (assuming with their fists) is a completely disproportionate response. Let's be honest here: Most people who try to start a fist fight aren't looking to kill you. It happens, but those are outliers.

I can't even believe I even have to argue that it's morally right to avoid killing someone, even if they are physically threatening.

you have a family by birth, you do not have a family of your own

the only ignorance is not being able to tell that was the distinction.

I wouldnt expect someone with your limited intelligence to understand the point I was making Vic.

Yes I do think woman should have the right to defend themselves from violent rapists.

so you are just going to take an assbeating when you have the ability to stop it with a gun?

The fluff? The countries that are "gunless" also have lower homicide rates. Make other arguments all you want, but this is spoken like an ignorant hick who is completely clueless when it comes to crime rates in foreign (Western) nations.

firthermore, this cop should of taken the assbeating? the criminal already tried to get his gun once. you think the assbeating would of been the end of it? seriously?

fluffing hippie idealists.

So what you should only protect a family of your own, not your family by birth?

Is protecting your family of birth any different to protecting your own family?

Thats quite a retarded point to take a stand on ford. Should I assume that as your from the south of America that your family by birth is the same as your own family for you?

so in your expertise what is the "morally right" point at which you are justified in killing someone? when they have you within an inch of your life?

A trained cop shouldnt get an assbeating from an untrained person unless they are incompetent.

But yes majority of american policeman are incompetent. hence the discussion we are having right now.

Over KILLING someone? Whatever man. If you want to take that moral position, good for you. I guess there's no convincing one another.

you obviously missed the point of that statement so i wont even bother.

The cop should be able to subdue a criminal, especially an untrained one, without using deadly force.


Or are all cops so useless they dont know any form of martial arts to defend themselves?

*sits downs*

*eats popcorn*

*pops open a beer*

*sips*

Dude have you ever been in a fight before and lost? Did you die? Obviously it's a judgment call - if an MMA cage fighter is coming at you, there's a serious risk of death. If it's a bar fight and you open fire, then I think that's excessive. It's a case-by-case basis, but if your first instinct is to just open up, then what the hell are we even discussing here?

yes because every cop is an alpha male with a black belt. i bet they are in NZ right? lol

we all know you think your billy badass cause you took some MMA training scode, but i gaurantee you your not as badass as you think. but im sure you could easily defeat anyone with 100 lbs and several inches on you with no issue right?

you are the jackass that keeps taking this hypothetical and ideological. in this case the cop was justified. period.

so someone who already tried to take your gun from you isnt justified? should probably give them at least 1 more chance to be fair right?