it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. doing what tc+hanlong did is an admin level deletion, as I said.

that being said, I'm also in favour of stricter moderation across pretty much every server in terms of creating a more positive playing experience, specifically on the solo and team servers. but that's not related to this issue and is an opinion I have had for a long time :p

we'd need to move to an anonymous moderation model and shake up who mods what if we were to go down that path.

Oh yeah! I like the sound of this Anonymous moderation model.

if somebody steals your car and crashes it because you left the keys in it, your insurance company is still required to pay.

i don't see how you can qualify it as unauthorized access when someone with the authority gave him the keys to do it. maybe they shouldn't have been drinking too much that night.

Pang,

If you get caught cheating IMO your account should be deleted OR reset with all your finishes.

If you are willing to let people get second chances start fresh, they should do so without there past finishes

Love j00

pang MD agrees 100% with this position and would fully support its implementation.

Dibs if you give me the keys to your house to repair your water heater and i knock up your 12yr old daughter then it would be okay because you gave me the keys to the house?

you wouldn't be in my house without me being there because i probably would've just met you and wouldn't know beans about whether or not you were a pedophile. you should consider yourself lucky if i'm not pointing a gun at your head while you're doing the work.

Cyber-crime law is just some american way of trying to controll the worls - just like someone in this game is trying to make politics out every thing.

And besides, who knows if he didn't think it was legit? - TC could have given him the user/password and said "here it is from the admins, they are trying to reduse the load on the web server and gives people the user/password for the database to play from there"

I havn't read anywhere that admins do not give the user/password to whom ever ask for it - have you?

actually it might be ok, because i'd probably grab a shotgun and force you to get married. what you doing running around knocking up 12 year old girls for?

The issue with JJ etc and sol/team servers is something completely different from this case (as Pang as said).

Also to clarify somewhat: the admin level deletion wasn't something done without my prior knowledge/input. Obviously the final decision wasn't up to me but it wasn't like qz/pang said "fluff you this is what we are doing". Also a deletion done in this way is beyond my paygrade so to speak... :P

Please do not make excuses for taking out the trash Martain. This is probably the one thing you guys have done this year that is widely accepted and needed more than any other. Point being- good job.

Look at all these cheater apologists coming out of the woodwork! Same boat as holocaust deniers.

The simple fact that hanlong was aware of cheating going and not reporting it is grounds for permaban and deletion of countries. You can see LAF lackeys already trying to create a scenario where this grub comes back to the game

hanglong is that you? You must be trolling because no person with half a brain would like having access to the whole game database including another alliance's forums would think that was intended...

More countries than the US have cybercrime laws. In fact in Germany it is illegal to even poses a tool that can be used for hacking. UK is tossing around the idea of banning them as well.

so, basically, it's illegal in Germany to own a computer? since almost all of them can be scripted to do things that they were not intended to do.

Dibs, pretty close... If you have any scripts on your box that they can prove are useful for attempting to gain unauthorized access/information they can try and charge you. I'm guessing it is similar to a paraphernalia charge but I don't live there so I'm not sure.

absolutely. my post was just to indicate this isn't a typical "cheating" deletion :p


[quote poster=ArsenalMD; 17382; 319740]

deleting EVERYTHING for cheating is really kind of overboard, IMO. for this kind of security breach, it could be warranted given the scope and length of it, as I said either here or elsewhere. Personally, I don't see much of a reason to do more than we have already have at this stage. I've gotta do other stuff with Boxcar anyway that's more important to the community than handing out more deletions/bans :-/

I'm a penetration tester so my computers are full of tools. Not sure how I would keep my skills sharp living in Germany...

Germany has some weird laws :p

Penetration testing is a very legitimate area.

dunno. maybe they issue permits so that people who have a legitimate need to use them just have to be registered.

People who make laws that don't really understand what it is they are making laws about are dangerous.

Heck.. if anything that "can be used for hacking" is banned, not only does that practically ban computers.. but also certain cell phones as well as things like screw drivers, magnets, and hammers.

Not even getting that silly: VBA on microsoft excel can be used for hacking so hence spreadsheets are illegal too?
:P

I KNEW there was more to those spreadsheets than you were letting on!

zOMG!

Penetration testing, lol.


So, if I have TOR on my computer I should have to register?

lol, LaF members are already trying to imply hanlong did NOTHING wrong. I guess it'll make it so much easier when they re-instate hanlong as don in a few sets :)

then follow TC, reigndeerz, teflon jack etc etc

The same telfonjack that was accepted into evo after after being booted from laf? How about King John running bots while in red? And as for the ex GNV... just lol.

+1 For hypocrisy.

No one in laf is defending hlw/tc, but what you're doing is calling the kettle black.

Each person has their own credentials, which they're not to give out to anyone; TC's were revoked over a year ago; he used credentials lifted directly from code which he'd copied before we'd secured each coding area; when we started EE we moved in with the idea to build the game as fast as possible, and trusted a number of people with access, as the construction of EE was necessary for the rest (evo2025/boxcar) to even justify their existence. A lot of the legacy code we had was never designed with multiple sites partitioned by different security areas, mainly because there was no need for it.

Given you can't accuse MD of hypocrisy, I'll have a go: Gamberto, Peanut, Ronnie, PapaFunk, TC, H4:-p and ofcourse Hanlong.

I feel like I woke up in 1999.

So he could have the SA? - Scary :)

98 99 99 2000 2012 2001 2012

hahaha

Q: martian, qz and pang. does this whole situation make you annoyed, angry or slightly excited? All?

more importantly.. how does it make *you* feel?
:P

o_O

you do realize that obtaining passwords is often the first step of 'hacking' a system?

Not to mention that the law doesn't distinguish unauthorized access by the possession of a password. It is a federal crime to access a secured system without permission. It doesn't matter how you gained that access.

To Hack: "to break into (a server, Web site, etc.) from a remote location to steal or damage data"

You're a dumbass Bikerman. That's like saying its not burglary if you break into someone's house and you have a key.

is there information that would be available to the players of EE as to how many times hanlong logged on and how much time was spent during each logon? also the amount of data that was transferred to him during said logons?

Hack (hobby), heavy modification of the software or hardware of one's own computer system

Se I can C&P from the interweb to, you fluffing retard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(term)

read up - the media starting calling CRACKERS for hackers - they fluffed it up (like always)

you're just entering someone's house if you have the key. ain't no breaking required. :-P

/me runs away really fast.

OMG, ebola! Are you still around??? lol

Just since Gramberto's name is there. His only cheating actually happened while he was a member of MD and was SUICIDING LaF, I believe he killed them 3 resets straight? Not saying MD had anything to do with it, but he was there at that time.

Ampy had a few shenanigians to her name as well.

Gram had head, or close to head access, and ampy was pres. Now When I look at MD I don't consider their actions linked to other MD's and I assume you wouldn't want that either.

EVO's history isn't very sparkly either.

It's just interesting seeing people pointing out others farts and claiming their's smell like roses.

Mr. Silver, Don't waste your time with facts, Arsehole will have none of those.
His list is propaganda, just like everything else coming from MD.

As mentioned I don't think being tank botted to the ground for several sets taking advantage of cheating.

I am also near sure that Ronnie was already gone from LaF before it was exposed that he was Yellow, and never tried to hide it anyhow. That I am aware of Ronnie didn't come back to LaF to play but on a few occasions after he was all but retired from Earth, and once after the game moved to EE. In addition I remember multiple times talking with him about what we could do to end him topfeeding LaF. So sides possibly being given warning topfeeds before fluffing LaF up, I don't think that was much of an advantage.

H4 that I am aware of only ever cheated once and was only exposed because he admitted to it on the boards. To be a cheater you have to actually perform an action of cheating... This was also long before EE. He was caught in the second week and booted, so I don't see that as an advantage.

TC is and was dirty, but proof of him cheating before this incident was afaik never found. I looked for it myself during times. It's hard to convince an IA team of cheating with nothing but rumors from haters of an alliance and haters of the specific person.

Hanlong has almost defiantly been as clean as a Head FR could be in the past. Say what you will but I think this shocked most.

PapaFunk - Was completely inactive in LaF from something like 2001 on. I don't remember anytime he was active. The real Shadow left the game in what 2002? maybe 2003? I don't remember any issues with him, nor do I remember any time that he gave LaF anything.

Peanut? The bot runner right? I don't even think he was in LaF and certainly didn't run bots on LaF's behalf. At the time he was active LaF was completely isolated and had no real enemies.

Edit: Oh I almost forgot about one of the times we discovered Psycho playing in our tag, asked him to find a new home and within 2 hours he switched tags to MD.

I am willing to bet that at least 75% of the players who were around before 1999 ran multies at one point or another. It was just more common and accepted back then for some reason.

In any case that's somewhat besides the point?

At times like this I actually miss martian being prez of SOF and doing something imaginative and unexpected. :)

Not beside the point others are trying to make. It seems directly to their point. Not the point of this thread but yah.

So Martian, let me see if I got this straight:

Hanlong only used his access to gather intel (Not about countries, but about clans intentions)

TC hasn't been confirmed as having done anything wrong, outside of giving hlw access. (And Pang has stated if countries were getting modified, it would be noticed). So then... how come you guys can't 'notice' who actually gave him 10m troops? Wouldn't you have the IPs of who was logged in to the db at that point?

Thirdly, given the fact that very few of the allegations held any water. Why was TC perma-banned, and hlw's countries deleted?

And if that IS your precedent, how is qzjul still an admin, after knowingly using knowledge he gained as an admin. And passing it on to Evo? Should not his finishes also be deleted, as his actions are just as at fault, if not more so, then what you guys are now saying was done by these two?

And my last question. Why was TCs database cut off from getting updates? I understand Pangs desire to create a 'separate' boxcar. But why were the ties cut to the one that already exists? You're punishing the users a lot more then the former admin.

I thought it was proven that TC did indeed give himself or his country 10m troops?

GJ admins/mods!

P.S: IS funny how some Lafers try to defend "cheating".

You are talking about "political gains" of others? after your supreme leader cheated every way possible to "political gain" in the last 4-5 resets ?

Can`t you see the irony here ?

Crying out "you are only doing this for political gain" is like saying "This situation will not affect Laf what so ever, and everyone will ignore it and all this pain Laf is feeling will go away."

Sorry but thats not going to happen right away. Actions were taken. Consequences will occur.

If consquences didnt occur, that would simply say "Its ok to cheat because no one cares enough." Sorry, but those who were affected directly by what has occured do care. You dont care because you gain everything from what has occured.

Just like SOL did in the past Alin?

long live hypocrites