Markets are a mess this set - Earth Empires Forum

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 27th 2019, 0:42:57

Yeah the 1a bots are a disaster, I'm not even trying this set, waste of time.

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)

https://youtu.be/...pxFw4?si=mCDXT3t1vmFgn0qn

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bug03

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Apr 27th 2019, 2:13:14

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Yeah the 1a bots are a disaster, I'm not even trying this set, waste of time.

And I can’t tell you how many sly attempts I’m failing on bots with 10 spal

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 12:11:04

Not even worth playing this set.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

UgolinoII

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Apr 27th 2019, 12:43:09

Originally posted by Celphi:

Not even worth playing this set.

adapt ;)

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:28:37

You're obviously a techer.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:30:48

The bots need to be completely removed from game.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Hessman123

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:35:36

Originally posted by Celphi:

The bots need to be completely removed from game.

Agreed..

It's basically play techer or you don't have a chance.. the bots eliminate the rest of the strategies from the competition

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:40:35

^ Exactly.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

UgolinoII

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:43:30

Originally posted by Celphi:

You're obviously a techer.

However did you guess!

bizzy

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Apr 27th 2019, 13:57:55

Originally posted by Hessman123:

Originally posted by Celphi:

The bots need to be completely removed from game.

Agreed..

It's basically play techer or you don't have a chance.. the bots eliminate the rest of the strategies from the competition

Express is techers game to win basically every set. Unless all human players happen to go techer because of this reason.
This issue is on Brock Lesnar steroids this set unfortunately.

Gerdler

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Apr 27th 2019, 16:54:01

Express would be dead without bots. The bot code should be modified so they themselves create a balanced market, thats requires someone who plays the game to tinker with it back and forth a couple of months making small changes instead of the fluffing upheavals we have had every time QZ has touched the code lately.

he also for no reason doubled the express bots and while it was suggested that 1a needed 50 more bots he added 150 more.

The bots are not the problem, the problem is how they are implemented. also when the bots actually work with the current up to date code indies can compete with techers, and casher has been improved by it.

Either way you can't any assertion of what the bots do the game when the bot code is wrong, we are not playing with current code, so anything you see this set does not repressent the status quo.

sinistril

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2184

Apr 27th 2019, 17:11:27

Originally posted by bizzy:

Originally posted by Hessman123:

Originally posted by Celphi:

The bots need to be completely removed from game.

Agreed..

It's basically play techer or you don't have a chance.. the bots eliminate the rest of the strategies from the competition

Express is techers game to win basically every set. Unless all human players happen to go techer because of this reason.
This issue is on Brock Lesnar steroids this set unfortunately.

Commie Indies have won 11 of the last 20 sets. Other than one theo, the others have been demos. At least one of those was a casher. The others were likely techers. A 40% techer win rate is really good but it's not even the most dominant strategy on express. 40% is certainly not 'basically every set'

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

UgolinoII

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Apr 27th 2019, 17:31:51

Originally posted by Gerdler:

So the one time I *might* win it doesn't count... 'bout right.

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 17:32:20

That's the thing Gerdler. The bots are not getting fixed. So it's better without. I'd rather there be a competition of players,. not of who can exploit the bots the best.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 17:37:42

Sinistril the only sets Commie Indies have a chance are the sets where everyone plays techer. And even then., it's not a slam dunk.

Have you seen any commie get 70+ mil net any set? Nope. I wonder why?

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Hessman123

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Apr 27th 2019, 17:45:25

Celphi is right.. its a contest of who can exploit the bots the best.. and its not a competition of who can play the best versus the other players in the game.. I've only been playing since January and I'm getting bored and tired of it already

With a techer selling bus/res tech at 5-6k plus its nearly impossible for any other strategy to compete

It would be nice to see a farmer, casher, or oiler be competitive but it's not possible currently in express

I had a demo techer set where I made some huge mistakes and got caught with over 1 mil tech points that didn't sell and I still hit almost 60 million net worth

Gerdler

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Apr 27th 2019, 20:16:54

there are 3 servers without bots and 3 with bots. I find the variety is great.

back 1 year ago you could have said techer was the only strat that could compete in express but as sinistril has demonstrated thats not the case now. You got essentially 2 strategies that can win. How is that different from any other server?

If you dont like techer or indy you will have to work a lot harder for a little less or try another server. Casher is great in primary. Techer sucks in primary.

Gerdler

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Apr 27th 2019, 20:41:33

"Contest who can exploit the bots best" is such a weird thing to say. I think the expression is idiotic. Tournament/Primary is a "contest of who can exploit nubs best" then? Its the same skillset roughly. I sell at a price I think will sell, I grab players/bots with a number of jets I think will break, etc.

Because Express has fewer turns than other servers it would be a mostly all-xp server without bots, so the bots make the server better. 1900 turns is like 12k acre all-xp casher/indy then cash out for the win. We already have that on another server: Tournament.
In order for express to be a unique experience to the other servers it needs to have bots. maybe not 50 bots, and maybe the casher/farmer/indy bots can be designed to spend their cash in another way and maybe the techer and rainbow bots can do more to balance it out.

Either way the bots with the correct up to date code are better than no bots for a unique and fun experience. QZ should just wake up and restart the bot asap.

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 20:56:08

Ok well I'll make a public tool for everyone on Alliance for DR,. and let's see if exploitation of bots matters.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 21:09:03

I find it comical how on this thread you call it idiotic,. yet it's a mechanism you exploit using scripts to maximize your LGs.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

bug03

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Apr 27th 2019, 21:29:39

Yeah scripts aren’t cheating at all

Celphi

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Apr 27th 2019, 21:46:07

And for the record--- EXPRESS did fine before the bots. Nor was everyone all -xp. We had to carefully select our human targets which we could only hit only once to prevent from breaking GDI.

Right now it's, load up my script, give me a list of all the best targets relative to my country with lowest DR, then attack that country. Somehow that's strategy.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

trumpoz

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Apr 27th 2019, 22:49:14

Originally posted by UgolinoII:

Originally posted by Gerdler:

So the one time I *might* win it doesn't count... 'bout right.

Funny these were the conditions that previous nw records were made under. I wonder if they 'count' now.

bayrock

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Apr 28th 2019, 1:09:25

Uhhh Celphi and Gerdler are dead right. Its pretty much PvE atm. Only idiots are hitting humans and getting retalled. Gerdler is right and the implementation is the problem. Theres still bots on literally 0 defense that I can grab for 200+ acres when im 6 mil networth and they are 1mil ????? literally sending 100 jets. The developers are pretty useless I remember 0 defense bots like 2-3 years ago and still not changed wtf??? I have been thinking of ideas on how to improve/change the state of the game but then I remembered the developers are useless and also last time I even asked about when updated will occur the mod locked the thread thats how actually bad and irresponsible they are. So dont expect anything from the useless mods/dev in this game.

galleri

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Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
14,334

Apr 28th 2019, 1:20:38

Excuse me how am I worthless?
I am sorry kitten, I don't have access to the admins stuff to fix everything for you.
Here we go.....

<cloud-rasp> It’s real bad
<cloud-rasp> DDOSing my DESTOCK

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

sinistril

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Apr 28th 2019, 1:24:12

Originally posted by Celphi:

Has anyone gotten 70+ mil net since the bot changes that nerfed techers? Either way, techers are high risk high reward. CI is low risk, moderate reward.

Originally posted by UgolinoII:

Originally posted by Gerdler:

So the one time I *might* win it doesn't count... 'bout right.

Didn't sound like he was saying it doesn't count, just that anything that happens out of this set cannot be representative of the impact that bots with the new code have on a server.

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

sinistril

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Apr 28th 2019, 1:26:28

Originally posted by bayrock:

whoosh.

Originally posted by Budweiser Bonzai:

That problem would be solved by removing 3rd party access to the game. Reintroduce the Fog of War. Make people work for the information. But then somebody might hurts their brains.

I would not mind this

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Celphi

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Apr 28th 2019, 2:57:39

Originally posted by sinistril:

Has anyone gotten 70+ mil net since the bot changes that nerfed techers? Either way, techers are high risk high reward. CI is low risk, moderate reward.

Techers are high risk?! Lol.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 28th 2019, 2:59:26

What is high risk about this??

Apr 25, 02:00 Apr 25, 06:00 $2990 $4999 $4,092.49 19,540
Apr 25, 06:00 Apr 25, 10:00 $2749 $6000 $3,913.21 38,827
Apr 25, 10:00 Apr 25, 14:00 $2297 $3700 $3,257.70 81,888
Apr 25, 14:00 Apr 25, 18:00 $2953 $6000 $3,349.91 131,112
Apr 25, 18:00 Apr 25, 22:00 $3000 $7777 $4,732.52 73,679
Apr 25, 22:00 Apr 26, 02:00 $2925 $5900 $4,156.13 239,883
Apr 26, 02:00 Apr 26, 06:00 $2777 $5554 $3,688.72 194,724
Apr 26, 06:00 Apr 26, 10:00 $3077 $6666 $5,406.68 181,002
Apr 26, 10:00 Apr 26, 14:00 $3311 $6665 $4,600.91 272,301
Apr 26, 14:00 Apr 26, 18:00 $3546 $5971 $4,266.64 197,254
Apr 26, 18:00 Apr 26, 22:00 $3290 $6220 $3,887.63 546,253
Apr 26, 22:00 Apr 27, 02:00 $3333 $6220 $4,064.40 523,689
Apr 27, 02:00 Apr 27, 06:00 $2824 $4500 $3,783.29 412,712
Apr 27, 06:00 Apr 27, 10:00 $2573 $4500 $3,894.12 469,162
Apr 27, 10:00 Apr 27, 14:00 $3210 $7777 $4,271.17 600,138
Apr 27, 14:00 Apr 27, 18:00 $3900 $5454 $4,629.38 505,889
Apr 27, 18:00 Apr 27, 22:00 $3474 $4500 $3,909.60 661,316
Apr 27, 22:00 Apr 28, 02:00 $2824 $3900 $3,416.54 841,819

Lowest tech avg was 3.4k and it's going into Sunday..

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 28th 2019, 2:59:56

If you don't break 70mil this set you should never play techer again..

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

sinistril

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Apr 28th 2019, 3:15:56

Since the bot changes. This set the bots are back to the old version as a result of them going down. It's obviously NOT a permanent change back. Don't even know why people are fluffing about bots being like this every set when they very clearly are not. Just send a pm to an admin and let it work itself out.

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Gerdler

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Apr 28th 2019, 5:48:53

Back when we had 50 bots with the old code and it was possible to get 70m nw, how many players other than ebert an i managed that? It was that way for like 30 sets. So if 70m was easy why didn't more people make it?

I welcome you to make a script to calculate DR, celphi. The main result from it will be that it saves time for people. I used to calculate DR by hand for each target in Express. Thats a very tedious process and its boring too but i was the first to 70m nw doing that even before there were 50 bots and the old nw record was 55 m ne or something.

Landgrabbing returns also has a nw component and DR cant be calculated precisely since there are hidden parameters that we cant know. So even with a script to calculate dr grabbing will still be an artform, one in which great grabbers will still excel, just that it will take less time for everyone.
The excessive time that this game demands from people is one of the main reasons people stop playing so i think you would do the game a great favor doing that.

Gerdler

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Apr 28th 2019, 6:26:33

I just checked. There are 7 sets in which a country have managed 70m+ NW, 6 of those times occured when we had 50 bots and they had not been modified to get more defence as QZ changed them last summer. Once was with low def bots but with 35 bots.

Four times by me, three times by ebert, zero times by everyone else. So if it was so easy why was it only the two of us?

As sinistril demonstrated techer is not even dominating anymore with the bot code we have played with for almost a year now and you are complaining on a meta that no longer exists (and indeed only existed for like 4-5 months).

bayrock

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Apr 28th 2019, 6:29:07

Haahahahha excessive time that this game demands??? Thats the funniest fluff ive ever heard. Literally login for 4 out of 7 days of the week for 10 minutes every now and again.

UgolinoII

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Apr 28th 2019, 10:15:45

Originally posted by Celphi:

Ok well I'll make a public tool for everyone on Alliance for DR,. and let's see if exploitation of bots matters.

there already is one, eestats.

UgolinoII

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Apr 28th 2019, 10:20:50

Originally posted by Celphi:

If you don't break 70mil this set you should never play techer again..

thats incredibly naive. getting 70m NW doesn't just magically happen because you have good tech prices... and given everyone started the set not realising that the old bot rules were in play, then I dont think anybody was playing the optimal strat out of the gate.

People who chose toucher got lucky, but there was still some on the fly adaptation that had to be made.

Gerdler

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Apr 28th 2019, 10:54:03

Originally posted by UgolinoII:

Originally posted by Celphi:

Ok well I'll make a public tool for everyone on Alliance for DR,. and let's see if exploitation of bots matters.

there already is one, eestats.

That doesnt display DR, it only shows how many successful hits on them last 24 hours. Doesnt account for half-lives, hits out, type of hit or def helds. So while it can give somewhat of a hint its not an accurate repressentation of what the DR actually is.

But either way Celphi is fooling himself if he believes the best grabbers now wont still be the best grabbers when his tool is completed. And yet even more if he believes grabbing is the only determinant of who does well.

UgolinoII

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Apr 28th 2019, 10:57:29

Originally posted by Gerdler:

Originally posted by UgolinoII:

Originally posted by Celphi:

Ok well I'll make a public tool for everyone on Alliance for DR,. and let's see if exploitation of bots matters.

there already is one, eestats.

Yeah ok I take your point its not literally DR. It give you everything you need to be able to eyeball it, and if people can't do that... :)

trumpoz

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Apr 28th 2019, 11:32:56

Looks like Stony and MountainYeti have the highest nw's since the new bot code and from what I can see they are the only ones to break 60mil NW.

Originally posted by bayrock:

Haahahahha excessive time that this game demands??? Thats the funniest fluff ive ever heard. Literally login for 4 out of 7 days of the week for 10 minutes every now and again.

If you look at ebert's grabbing when he got 83mil and 76mil nw he was pretty much doing 5 x ps every 2 hours apart from between 2-6am gametime when I assume he was sleeping or trying to sleep. Significant market manipulation is needed to get that high, and even with SO's that takes time to login, check, reset etc.

When Gerdler got 80mil nw his grabbing approach was different to ebert's and it looks like he got a good night's sleep. Personal opinions aside he is one of the best netters out there and certainly knows how to manipulate the market.

Edited By: trumpoz on Apr 28th 2019, 11:35:05

Hessman123

Member
898

Apr 28th 2019, 12:14:39

Soooo. When these guys got 70+ mil networth were you playing casher? farmer? Indy? Or techer?

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that all of the 70+ mil NW finishes were techer strategy

bizzy

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Apr 28th 2019, 12:23:30

Does anyone know the plan for next set? Are they going back to new code or should we expect the same shenanigans next set?

Celphi

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Apr 28th 2019, 13:18:27

@Hessman123,

They're all techers. Even my 60+ mil net was techer., and I wasn't getting 1k SS grabs as the person above me was. This is the primary reason I don't play for the #1 spot.

https://www.eestats.com/express/oldcountry/1528/96
https://www.eestats.com/express/oldcountry/1528/93

The difference matters significantly with target selection.

I could program everything out, market watching on #market.express,, find best country target near net range with lowest DR,, but then what's the point of playing?

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

galleri

Game Moderator
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14,334

Apr 28th 2019, 13:35:25

Originally posted by bayrock:

Haahahahha excessive time that this game demands??? Thats the funniest fluff ive ever heard. Literally login for 4 out of 7 days of the week for 10 minutes every now and again.

This right here explains two things:
1. You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to this game.
2. You will never make rank 1

<cloud-rasp> It’s real bad
<cloud-rasp> DDOSing my DESTOCK

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

UgolinoII

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Apr 28th 2019, 14:18:41

Originally posted by bizzy:

Does anyone know the plan for next set? Are they going back to new code or should we expect the same shenanigans next set?

I suppose that depends whether or not all the bots on all the servers run from the same codebase. If it does, that would mean switching mid set in 1a which isn't great, though they have done it before, much gnashing of teeth followed so not sure they would do it again.

If thats the case, expect huge tech demand again!