We would like to change destocking on longer servers to be more market based and to remove the incentives for players to drop land at the end of the set. As currently designed, the "Generate Units on Private Market" feature allows players to do an extremely effective destocking technique by dropping land to a couple hundred acres with 100% of land as military bases. Going forward, trading oil for private military units would be an action that requires a turn and would be capped to one action per 24 hour period (similar to the daily limit for spy ops). There would be a maximum amount of oil that can be burned based on the country's current state. As a starting point, we're looking at the following formula:

Maximum oil barrels that can be burned = (11520 / server_minutes_for_turn) * (1 + MB / LAND) * (ENT + RES + LABS + INDY + FARM + MB + CS)

A few things to note about the formula:
* Most building types increase daily capacity for burning oil. Empty land and oil rig land does not increase capacity.
* The percentage of land covered in MBs increases the daily capacity for burning oil.
* A country with 0 MBs could destock at three times the normal rate per day if they burn the maximum amount of oil per day.
* A country with 100% MBs could desock at fives times the normal rate per day if they burn the maximum amount of oil per day.

The exchange rate would be the same as it currently is: "Spend 40 oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available for purchase on the Private Market."

We are looking for feedback on this idea at this time. The formula for the maximum number of oil barrels that can be burned is entirely negotiable right now. I'm fine with allowing a large daily maximum but want to remove the incentive for private market destockers to drop land. I also want to avoid most situations where a player can complete the entire destocking process in an instant.

You could also possibly have an option to generate only certain units at an increased rate to help using this feature to stonewall. The fact that the only reasons this mechanic exists is solely for destock is kinda weird.

You could still use this mechanic to buy military units in an emergency, such as during stonewalling, just as before. This post focuses on destocking because that's the most problematic area right now.

This seems very good.

*Rigs not being included means full oilers will be forced to sell all their oil and jump without oil burning.
*The extra effect of MBs will make endgame MBR viable as a strat to switch to for jumping, and you will be forced to carry a lot of acres into that phase which is hardcore oldschool.
*The max being decided by buildings means that BRs will be slightly harder to wall than GS which is great change for war.
*Because the max is tied to buildings it will also put a penalty on dropping land in war, which is great. MAGA = Make Acres Great Again.

------------

I want it recorded for posterity that I think the '(1 + MB / LAND)' factor or one with some kind of multiplyer like '(1 + C * MB / LAND) could be used instead of to increase the amount of oil to be burned it could be used to increase the amout of units created by said oil burnage.

This is because I think it's still quite a massive jump we could do at present formula with the high acre strats, and MBR would only be useful for 2-4 days in the end so switching for only that increased units is a steep price to pay unless the profit potential is decent. Right now the difference in value of oil for a theo with 0 MBs or a theo with 100% MBs is too tiny to make a real profit.

This would look like "Spend C1/(1 + C2 * MB / LAND) oil generate 30 troops, 25 turrets, 25 jets and 10 tanks to be available for purchase on the Private Market."
C1=40 to 60
C2=1/3 to 1

gut feel i dont think MBR will actually matter much because you give up so much production turns and cash to do it

if your big the cost is prohibitive, and if your small the benefit is small

id imagine the netting oil will fall significantly making the majority of the market be war oil which could lead to a much more volatile market

and oil will be worth a lot less end of set too

perhaps still high for emergency

interesting dichotomy on produce oil or use it though, will lead to a lot less people using their own oil and a lot more flowing through the market

for nw record type countries looks like destocking methods would need to change a bit at least

id hope this change comes in sync with the clanGDI changes as the need to get bigger could lead to much easier suiciding

As it stands the difference in the value of oil for a MBR(demo or theo) and a non-MBR theo is about 50 dollars. That is quite a narrow range at the moment considering that once the theo non-MBRs can buy oil and burn it to resell military for profit you got basically a soft floor for the oil price there(based on the NW value of goods on the public market).
This soft floor is because if that is profitable, some farmers will switch to theo and resell the last days without switching - ofc that assumes there isnt a couple of big theo cashers already exploiting this.

Assuming then you resell maximally and get the 50 dollars profit for every oil barrel you buy, burn and resell units for you end up with an income from the oil of $800/acre/turn. Would be solid if there was a way you could run it more than just the last few days but as I doubt that is the case it may still be unworth for anyone to switch MBR.

I guess it's hard to be sure without trying it tho. Fun change doesn't need to be perfect from the get go as long as any flaws that become apparent are dealt with.

Will this also mitigate the selective realism of hundreds-of-millions of military units being crammed into 20 acres of land?

I like a change that will bring back market destocking. It is far too easy to do an oil jump. Maybe this will bring back some form of a military reseller in some capacity?

It does seem this will hurt the demand for oil and oilers may be done for? Back to the days of TAN being the only oiler on the server!

it hurts self contained farmer oilers by limiting their destock compared to pure farmer or casher

the games gotten a bit too rainbowey recently with the grabbing changes, so i guess thats nice in a way but oiler is also the only strat which cant grab its own buildings

What if you could burn oil to convert EMs into chen's or nukes? Makes sense if you don't think too hard about it and would make EMs and oil worth something after you take away the destock ability. =\

Pretty silly not to just buff the EM instead. Considering everyone and their mother are dropping land in war I think nukes are the most badly designed missile at this juncture. EM at least does something useful, even tho its kinda weak.

If we go back to topic I can think of several strats with this that could fight for the win. This is excellent.

Apologies for the dense question but what does 'server_minutes_for_turn' mean?

its probably the code variable for how many minutes it takes to get a turn

if you look on these pages:

https://www.earthempires.com/primary/serverdetails

Turn Rate
Turns are given every 30 minutes.

the 4th row says how many minutes per turn, or you can just check in countries, so it faries from 4 express to 30 primary

interestingly it means oil destock will be weakest on primary and strongest on express from the turns, but express has arguably the weakest oil destock already so i dont think that really matters

Interesting proposal Slagpit. I still don't know whether I like it or hate it, but admit it has grown on me, much like the new BMW M4.

Here are some of my early half baked thoughts:
- I wasn't aware the oil destock was a problem? It is an end game mechanic that can be employed by any strat and doesn't favour any strat unduly.
- I like the current oil destock mechanic for its simplicity and because it allows players to stock up to the last turn of the set
- I also enjoy the theatre of not knowing who played the most efficiently until the last moment of the set when the big reveal happens
- These proposed changes stop countries from dropping land, which I understand looks funny when you look at the leaderboard, but that never bothered me, and it comes at the cost of allowing players to maximise the days they can stockpile. It seems like a large change for something that is personal preference.
- In saying the above, I recognise change is refreshing and it will force players to retool
- Why not just reduce the exchange rate for oil? This would force players to choose between destocking earlier (through the market) or stocking for longer (and using an oil destock). I'm sure you have already considered this, so understanding the rationale to get to this point would be insightful.
- I would suggest adding bonus points for this mechanic, where x% is added to the multiplier, and similar to the resource decay bonus where it takes a large part of the set to achieve anything meaningful
- Finally, I appreciate that you are continually look at ways to improve the game. It's not easy putting your ideas out there and being open to feedback. Our thanks :)

The 'dropping land to get NW looks weird'-arguement is something I discard wholly.

The issue to me is that destocking has become a moment rather than a phase and its the same from set to set with more or less no variability. I mean there are hybrid destocks which require a bit of math to get the most off but I dont think there are more than 5 players who done them on purpose since oil could be burned for units.

Because its the same dozen or so steps every reset it takes away the art of balancing purchases, stock sell-off and the like with the public market demand/supply and the private market regeneration.

Reducing the exchange rate for oil would put the art back in destocking a bit since some would oil destock still, some would oil destock with initial buyout and another few would just skip oil and destock with private/public over days.
If the 40 barrels for X units were changed to 60 barrels, it would not be enough; oil destocking would still win every reset. 80-100 or a reduction in the units by 50-60% would be 'enough' assuming no other changes.

what about make exchange rate based on mb/land ratios

I agree with this. It removes an entire phase from the game for all intents and purposes.

More anecdotally, you don't get to enjoy the NW climb or looking at your advisor and seeing all of your stuff for very long. If you are truly min-max, you jump in the last few minutes to get every single turn you can, etc., and never really get to enjoy the big country you worked all set to build for long before it goes away, and you have to look at it on eestats.

Its funny looking at ffa on eestats because it doesnt work for over 2b nw. Which ironically would be more of an issue in a longer destock phase.

But its not like t10 nw's are hidden in game its just that score page is a bit redundant compared to other tools.

dw, there's a scores page ingame as well.

No, my point was that you jump right when the game ends and everything gets reset, then you must go to eestats. Vs. a slower jump, you get to enjoy your rank/nice big country a bit longer.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my message. It was just a silly example anyway.

Also, FFA doesn't show over 2b. LOL, that's a fail (and ironically easy to fix, someone call Bore).

Earthquakes are disproportionately bad for techers

They also seem to happen more to techers , anecdotally

But I agree with prime

I think you ment to post that on the other thread..

Welcome back Chevs!