Important Netting Revelation from NBK

QM Diver

Member
1096

May 22nd 2011, 16:47:33

The hits on NBK, stop now!

Since we all now understand, at this point, in this set, (even earlier) there is no real reason to be grabbing land.

Legit or those unaware who grab us, from this point on, shall receive stiff retals on a case by case..

Any attacks seen as stock hunting will be killed.

To All tags:
Thank you, for allowing NBK to net, nearly peacefully, the entire reset.. It was tons of fun!
We do appreciate your patience with our nOObish wannabe netting antics and internal growing pains.

Also, for those who spent their time to help us all better understand netting practices, by posting here on FFAT....
Special gratitude, we gladly extend..

QM Diver
and...
The Natural Born Killers

===================================================
May your final nets be better than you've ever had!
QM

*This does not apply to ongoing FA negotiations currently pending!

Natural Born Killers
PreZ

synoder

Member
1664

May 22nd 2011, 16:55:09

just to spice things up a bit (stocking and destocking is a little boring) we may or may not be unloading all our missiles on randomly selected countries.

rebelnbk

Member
505

May 22nd 2011, 17:54:24

Roger that. 2k missiles ready to fire.

Popcom

Member
1820

May 22nd 2011, 18:44:11

we shall call it...the rapture of countries!

1A - BLOWS
FFA- NBK4Life

~If at first you don't succeed, you are clearly not Popcom~

aliyah

Member
426

May 22nd 2011, 21:05:34

Whoohoo! Missiles!

ALIYAH
TINY BUT MIGHTY!
HEAR ME RAWR!

LCN Spellchecker in training

Havoc

Member
4039

May 22nd 2011, 22:44:31

Can i lend some missiles to said rapture? :/

Also, PANLV has similar sentiments regarding late set grabs. Don't be a fluff.

Havoc
Unholy Monks | The Omega

pokey

Member
117

May 22nd 2011, 22:50:00

++like

nice job this set, guys

--TheOmega--
--Pandora's Last Vikings--
http://www.eepandora.com

galleri

Game Moderator
Primary, Express, Tourney, & FFA
14,112

May 22nd 2011, 22:55:49

2 countries full of missiles for me are gone. I don't mind unloading the rest. :)

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

aliyah

Member
426

May 22nd 2011, 23:21:25

I wanna missile something! I don't have a boatload, but what I do have works very well.

ALIYAH
TINY BUT MIGHTY!
HEAR ME RAWR!

LCN Spellchecker in training

KeTcHuP

Member
1785

May 23rd 2011, 0:43:07

So when you dont like grabs its perfectly fine to kill any country over 1 grab, yet you can grab whenever you like?

Sounds fair.

Ketchup the Thoughtful Suicidier

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 1:30:00

So its okay to grab for land, but not to grab for stockpile?

I think NBK needs to GS their countries into DR if they are going to be so stockfat.

synoder

Member
1664

May 23rd 2011, 1:33:12

its pretty much moot anyhow since mission destock has begun!

mrford

Member
21,358

May 23rd 2011, 1:48:33

meh

NBK started grabbing CC, then CC started hitting NBK back for more profit, then NBK sued for a pact

just found that weird

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 1:52:39

Originally posted by KeTcHuP:

So when you dont like grabs its perfectly fine to kill any country over 1 grab, yet you can grab whenever you like?

Sounds fair.

Agreed.

And thank you for your understanding. :P

I only speak for myself and not all of NBK when I say:

Until I worked all set to build a stockpile and try to balance defense with net gains and maintain the balance of not making a grab worth while, yet still make a gain with each turn played, I never knew how difficult it was. To have a country that had no hopes of finishing in the top 100 or even 200 grab that country for 1 week or 2 weeks worth of stock took on new meaning.

I will still land trade and will continue to look for completely undefended countries that let their DR's lapse as I feel that is a risk of their strategy and they know it. So self farmers are still going to be target #1.

I've never made late set grabs as I've always been in a war to the end of each set up to now, but will not be making any in the future now that I have a better understanding of what it takes for a non self farmer to make big gains.

Again this is only my opinion.

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 2:01:16

So khavic - how is having your stockpile on hand when you get grabbed not a risk of the stockpiling strategy?

Gmann03

Member
827

May 23rd 2011, 2:17:10

you have about a week left in the set, by all intents and purposes. LGing should be over now.Especially on other clans. Just missle dumping should be in effect at this time.

317320747
Lot/Mars2025
http://cc.ghqnet.com
http://
http://sol.ghqnet.com
http://lot.ghqnet.com

synoder

Member
1664

May 23rd 2011, 2:23:00

Originally posted by mrford:

meh

NBK started grabbing CC, then CC started hitting NBK back for more profit, then NBK sued for a pact

just found that weird

did galleri send her lawyers after ya? ;)

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:23:03

It is. There is just no reason IMO to grab anyone late in the set. Which would commonly be when someone would have a large stockpile on hand, and I will not be making those grabs. I would be happy to make an exception for you though Rockman :) j/k

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 2:24:38

Originally posted by Khavic25:

The reason to grab them is to get part of their stockpile. Why is that not a valid reason to grab someone, but grabbing someone for their land is valid?

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:33:09

Land does not get spent and go away. YOU CAN GRAB IT BACK !!

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 2:34:28

Originally posted by Khavic25:

Land does not get spent and go away. YOU CAN GRAB IT BACK !!

I can grab it back? I didn't know this server accepted land:land.

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:37:31

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

Damn missed it

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:38:18

Join NBK for a couple sets. K4F is a great teacher of how to properly retal.

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 2:44:50

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:47:03

I am a piss poor student....

Damn missed it

diez

Member
1340

May 23rd 2011, 2:47:18

^ lulz

and if you think grabbing land late in the set is ok because you can grab it back - you can also grab your stock back don't you?

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 2:51:45

ummm..... no if you read what i first posted you would have seen i said i would not be doing late set grabs at all

Damn missed it

synoder

Member
1664

May 23rd 2011, 3:00:38

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

their landsize is only one of the factors that determines your gains ;) I know you already know that tho :)

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 3:03:03

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

If you self farm there is no reason you cannot make a country any size you need to do a retal. Though since you are all knowing you already knew that.

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 3:04:27

Originally posted by synoder:

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

their landsize is only one of the factors that determines your gains ;) I know you already know that tho :)

Yes, but it is a key limiting factor. And it is important to note that your own landsize has no effect on your gains (aside from the indirect effect of your landsize effecting your networth, which then effects your gains). Therefore it is faulty to claim that proper retaliation allows 1:1 retals to always get your land back.

Khavic needs to change his reasoning for why grabbing for land is acceptable but grabbing for stockpile is unacceptable. Because otherwise, he's provided sufficient justification for land:land retals.

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 3:05:23

Originally posted by Khavic25:

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

If you self farm there is no reason you cannot make a country any size you need to do a retal. Though since you are all knowing you already knew that.

Yes, but my size doesn't affect my gains. If I am a tyranny with 140% military strategy that is 95% of the networth of the person that grabbed me, that does not guarrantee that I can get all of my land back.

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 3:12:53

I retalled every grab on my countries this set and gained land in the end because of ghost acres, and I do not self farm. If you cannot figure out how to do the same then too bad for you.

Damn missed it

synoder

Member
1664

May 23rd 2011, 3:13:09

true, if you grabbed a country with considerable more land that you have it may not be possible for them to get all their land back.

de1i

Member
1639

May 23rd 2011, 3:14:00

Sorry Rockman :)

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 3:15:58

how could your 50k acre country be at the same NW as a 10k acre country?

and if you are all turrets with an all jet retaller how could you lose?

i call bullfluff

Damn missed it

synoder

Member
1664

May 23rd 2011, 3:19:13

acres aren't worth that much nw so its pretty easy for a 50k and a 10k acre country to be the same nw, especially if the 50k country is self farming and carrying low military and the 10k country is military heavy.

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 3:26:37

that's my point

i wish the person that ran the countries named "the havocs" would chime in since they were all turrets and were not worth making grabs on since to run 50/50 offense defense put a 20k acre country with enough military to break so far above their NW it was not worth the jets to hit

that person had it figured out

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 3:29:21

Originally posted by Khavic25:

how could your 50k acre country be at the same NW as a 10k acre country?

and if you are all turrets with an all jet retaller how could you lose?

i call bullfluff

The 50k acre country may have a very small military, or if the 50k acre country has a reasonable sized military, the 10k acre country could have stockpiled cash and then spent it on military.

And if its not okay for a 50k acre country to run around with a very small military, why is it okay for a country with 10 billion cash to have a very small military? Why should countries have to defend their land, but they shouldn't have to defend their stockpile?

Bsnake

Member
4287

May 23rd 2011, 3:29:53

i really think QM is saying if you think u can grab NBK's stockers for the sake of it to get the gain and not really be worth a retal then watch out..... and NBK is a clan that can make that sort of threat(promise or what ever u want to call it) thats the joy of being a big/solid alliance... and thats fair call too..if you dont want to face the consequences, dont grab them...

I spy opped a few big stockers with the drunken thought of maybe doing the same thing for a laugh,but thought better of it as its just no long term gain for me...

Me and a Pan member had that chat ingame when i failed an op on his jetter...

<bsnake> 68,270,386 turrets whats that in NW??
<Crippler> 115m NW
<Bsnake> 38 mill NW nub... thanks for your netting advice.. Stick to killing nub

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 3:33:43

What QM is saying is that now that they are doing decently well at netting, they are finding out that keeping enough military to deter people from grabbing your countries and it not being worth it for you to retal is inconvenient, and they want to run low defense countries and not properly defend their stockpiles.

And since they are a big alliance that can war, they can get away with these threats. The only problem is, they're turning this server into the alliance server with their poorly defended stockpiles and inability to benefit from 1:1 retals.

Pain

Member
4849

May 23rd 2011, 3:37:23

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by synoder:

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

their landsize is only one of the factors that determines your gains ;) I know you already know that tho :)

there is no such thing as ghost stockpile. when you retal you gain ghost acres to make up for the land you dont get.

a 10k country grabs a 20k acre country. thats what most people would consider a topfeed (people who recognize topfeeds). 10k acres PSes 20k acres and gains 2k land (avg) with another 1k ghost. now its at 13k acres. if you retal that country with a tyr/dict with even 125% milstrat you will gain all the land lost and even then some. after ghost acres.

i can understand why most people in FFA dont agree with L:L because you have 16 countries and land isnt scarce where as alliance you only have 1 and land is pretty scarces so you want to get back all the land you lost and then some to make it worthwhile.

Your mother is a nice woman

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 3:53:29

Originally posted by Pain:

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by synoder:

Originally posted by Rockman:

Originally posted by Khavic25:

If you know how to properly retal then 1 retal for 1 grab is all it takes.

FYI, their landsize determines your gains, not your own. If K4F is such a great teacher, how come you didn't know that?

their landsize is only one of the factors that determines your gains ;) I know you already know that tho :)

So the 10k acre country is not allowed to buy military strategy tech or be a tyranny? And its only half the size of the country it grabs? But if it was a 5k acre tyranny with 140% strat tech hitting the 20k acre country, what then?

Land is scarce on FFA. All-explore countries can get topfed here, whereas on alliance, the server has done a much better job (with the exception of PDM) of their countries staying reasonably close to the top all-explore countries in landsize.

There is no such thing as ghost stockpile, but there's also the ability to hide your stockpile on the market. You can't hide your land on the market (although you can have your country put into artificial DR).

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 4:19:10

Well bottom line i guess is that you can hunt stockpiles if you desire Rockman, but just be aware that if you do it in the last 7-10 days of the set it will cost you severely. I highly doubt that NBK is the only clan that would have an issue with it.

Anytime before that it would probably not even be an issue. It would not be with me. Again, I reiterate, I am only voicing my own opinion.

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 4:26:14

Originally posted by Khavic25:

I'm against stockpile hunting. But I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in complaining about stockpile hunting while you claim the right to topfeed other alliances.

You keep telling netters that if they self-farm and don't wanna get topfed, they need to get a reasonable defense. But somehow, you can't make the connection that if you keep a huge stockpile on hand and don't want to get grabbed for your stockpile, your justification for grabbing netters indicates that you should just get more defense, rather than whining about being hit.

Pain

Member
4849

May 23rd 2011, 4:37:48

i guess you have a valid point rockman.

Your mother is a nice woman

Popcom

Member
1820

May 23rd 2011, 4:47:42

how about, we are big. we kill if we want to, we dont if we want to. :P

1A - BLOWS
FFA- NBK4Life

~If at first you don't succeed, you are clearly not Popcom~

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 4:51:08

Originally posted by Popcom:

how about, we are big. we kill if we want to, we dont if we want to. :P

I don't mind that. I prefer an honest bully to a hypocritical one who likes to pretend that he's not actually a bully.

It's hard to argue with a bully who admits that he's a bully. There's not much to argue about, because "you're a bully" "yep" doesn't leave much room for a good argument.

Khavic25

Member
520

May 23rd 2011, 5:00:39

I did not see any complaints about stock hunting prior to the end of the set. I admit I was not looking for them, but there had to be some grabs back and forth that involved stock before that were just not brought to the FA's.

You seem to think that if you self farm and way out pace the growth of a country that explores then you should be exempt from being grabbed. That is BS.

I guess just play your countries the way you think will bring you the best results toward your goals.

Damn missed it

Rockman

Member
3388

May 23rd 2011, 5:12:38

Originally posted by Khavic25:

And you seem to think that if you stockpile, you should be exempt from being grabbed. So I guess all I have to do is keep 2b cash on my countries while they are growing, and they're exempt from being grabbed, right?

I DON'T think that my countries should be exempt from being grabbed while I am self-farming, but I don't think that a country should be exempt from being grabbed just because its stockpiling either. I've not been arguing in support of grabbing someone who is stockpiling, I've been arguing to show the similarity between self-farming and stockpiling, and that in both cases you should be required to keep a reasonable defense which is sufficient to deter people from grabbing you.

You are the one who has a selective opinion on who should be exempt from being grabbed and who should not. I'm merely asking for consistency from you, and you are responding irrationally.

braden

Member
11,480

May 23rd 2011, 5:14:00

"And since they are a big alliance that can war, they can get away with these threats. The only problem is, they're turning this server into the alliance server with their poorly defended stockpiles and inability to benefit from 1:1 retals."

this is so true, and kind of hilarious considering how stringent they are about this not becoming the alliance server

rockman also was completely right in topfeeding being ridiculous because i need to defend my land or i don't deserve to have it, and this not following the exact same idea for their stockpiles.